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  • #10543
    Sir Humphrey
    Strataguru

      Dear Jimmy and other NSW strata gurus especially,

      An occasional suggestion that comes up here in the ACT is that we should adopt NSW practice with distribution of EC minutes to all owners and/or posting on a notice board. I wonder what the effect of that is? 

      -on accuracy of the minutes?

      -on the willingness of owners to bring a matter of concern to the EC?

      -on the ability to manage a sensitive on-going matter subtly rather than with a megaphone, particularly where one resident has made a complaint or brought a concern about another?

      -on unfairly airing one side of an issue before the EC has had time to look into the other side?

      Here the EC minutes are part of the OC records and, of course, any owner is entitled to inspect the OC records. However, it takes some effort to make a trip to the managing agent’s office so a degree of privacy is maintained. 

      Our practice has been to issue a newsletter that reflects the business conducted by the EC but will often talk in generalities rather than naming names. In a recent example, the EC wanted to remind owners of our process for approving of unit alterations by the EC. The EC also wanted to inform owners that a matter to do with an unapproved alteration had gone to the Tribunal and our approvals process had been upheld. We wanted owners to appreciate that the EC had the ability to enforce our procedures and to deter owners from unilaterally choosing to not follow them. 

      However, the EC did not want to draw unnecessary attention to the person who had made the unapproved alteration out of concern for her well-being. It was felt that exposing her directly would be felt as a humiliation and that the EC might seem vindictive. If anyone wanted to know the specifics, they can ask. Furthermore the Tribunal’s Decision and Reasons are in the public domain. The EC judged that it would not be productive for anyone to run her nose in it. 

      The matter was sensitive in part because the unapproved alteration was the unit owner’s response to what was frankly an obsessive and deluded belief about a neighbour. How would you manage this in NSW without broadcasting every step on the long path to the Tribunal, where the first steps were to resolve that an action from the meeting would be for the least threatening-looking EC member to try to talk through the unit owner’s concerns that had led to the alteration?  Do the EC minutes end up so bland and vague as to no longer be a proper record, perhaps of no use if evidence is needed later?

      On another matter with a differently composed EC, we had one EC member bring a report with photographic evidence to the table at a meeting that purported to show conclusively that very specific damage had been done to one owner’s property by another. This was recorded in the minutes of that meeting. It was only in a later meeting, after other EC members had had a chance to obtain, present or examine evidence from the other side, that we recorded that there was clearly no substance to the original complaint. It would have been very unfair to the accused person to have broadcast the initial, apparently damning information. Ultimately, it would also have been highly embarrassing to the person who had brought the complaint. We were concerned for her well-being also. 

      I suspect that knowledge that this sort of exposure would ensue would discourage some owners from bringing matters of reasonable concern to the EC. Conversely, knowledge that the EC would provide publicity might encourage other owners to raise petty or unreasonable matters. Neither would be good. 

      I wonder how NSW ECs manage to manage in the full exposed glare of published minutes. The difficulty is that arguing for delayed transparency is like opposing motherhood. I suspect that NSW ECs find themselves making pragmatic workarounds that ultimately are less transparent with less accurate OC records.

      So, how does a diligent, sensitive EC cope when you have a difficult matter? Does it stay off the books till it is resolved? Hardly best practice, but is that where you end up?

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    • #25124
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        Here in NSW the law requires ECs to prepare and distribute ‘full and accurate’ minutes of their meetings.  But what does ‘full and accurate’ mean?

        Many ECs take the view that it only requires that all items discussed and any resolutions made are recorded.  The debates and discussions themselves are not generally aired … unless the secretary or chair has a bee in their bonnet.

        For instance, in recent minutes our secretary indulged in a lengthy explanation of why he had written to the government to complain that the incoming anti-proxy harvesting laws are anti-democratic. You can jump to your own conclusions about why any space in the minutes was taken up with this.

        It has to be said that there was a lengthy response to an owner who had questioned the practice of strata managers taking commission on strata insurance. The response explained why it happened and how it occurred at no additional cost to the EC, so it was probably worth putting it out there. That said, we have no newsletter where it might have been even more effective.

        Your caution about ‘naming and shaming’, even inadvertently, is admirable. Generally speaking, the less detail you give, the better, although there are situations, such as when the EC has a legal requirement to approve a motion before they can issue a Notice To Comply, where the guilty party has to be identified in the motion.

        Many ECs get round this by using the Lot number, on the basis that no one knows their own lot number, let alone anyone else’s.

        There are also occasions when you might want to explain why a decision has been made.  For instance, if you are closing the pool over winter for essential repairs rather than to save money or protect the environment, it’s worth spelling that out – which is where the newsletter is probably a more effective tool.

        Your practice of not naming names in your minutes and newsletter is worth sticking to – for your own protection if not your neighbours’.

        In NSW, the dealings of an owners corp have ‘qualified privilege’ when it comes to defamation.  This allows for robust and open discussion but protection against legal action pretty much evaporates as soon as any kind of malice is shown. The Sydney Morning Herald lost part of the defamation case brought by Joe Hockey because of an email that said “let’s nail him on this …”

        Getting back to the notice board, it may be the only time owners actually read agendas and minutes so it does have value but you have to be extra careful.

        An owner in a building I know sued some members of the EC for defamation because of an item in the minutes asking owners to write letters supporting the EC in their battle over a by-law.  The owner felt the wording of the request implied that they were a bad person.

        Because the minutes were also pinned to the notice board, the owner’s lawyers argued that this had gone beyond the limits of internal discussions as the minutes could now potentially be read by visitors and tradespeople, lowering the owner’s standing in the community.

        The owner lost, partly because neither malice nor broad publication could be proved, and had to pay very hefty costs.  But the emotional toll on the targetted EC members who had to turn up in court to be cross-examined by an eminent Special Counsel, was incalculable.

        So I would say yes, post the minutes in their most minimal form including in a format like “an owner has claimed that a tenant has damaged their property – this is being investigated.”

        In an effort to fire a warning shot, I might even go so far as saying something like “Neighbours of lot 567 have complained about excessive noise and parties. We are examining these allegations. Any other owners who may have suffered disturbance should contact the secretary …”  But only if there was no prior suggestion of malice in notes or emails. You could argue that no visitor or tradesperson would know where Lot 567 was, let alone who lived there.

        And I would put at the bottom of your minutes “residents who would like to read further explanation on any of these items should contact the secretary and we will try to include it in the next newsletter.”

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #25126
        Sir Humphrey
        Strataguru
        Chat-starter

          Here we do try to stick with the less personal ‘owner of unit XX’ formula rather than names, but many would know immediately who lives at unit XX. 

          It does sound like your minutes end up less detailed. 

          #25135
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            Are lot numbers and unit numbers the same in the ACT?  They tend to be very different here, hence the anonymity they provide.

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #25137
            Sir Humphrey
            Strataguru
            Chat-starter

              I am not sure generally, but where I live the number on the door of the unit is the same as the unit number (‘lot’ in NSW-speak).  If minutes announced that the owner of unit 26 had made a complaint about some alleged transgression by the owner of unit 25, it would be obvious who those people were.

              Publication of minutes before the EC had got to the bottom of whatever the problem was would seem unfair to both parties and might diminish the chances of an amicable resolution of what might turn out to be a minor matter or a misunderstanding. I fear it could also deter residents from telling the EC about matters of more serious concern that we would want to hear about. 

              #25138
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                It’s definitely different here – although if we said Unit 212 that would be the number on the door. But lot 3456 could be unit 212.

                The problem with notifying unresolved disputes here arises if an owner puts forward a motions requesting a Notice To Comply be issued.  There has to be clear evidence that the EC has considered the issue at a meeting, that it was on the agenda and the minutes, or NCAT won’t even look at it. That’s when the partial anonymity of lot numbers comes in handy. 

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #25139
                Sir Humphrey
                Strataguru
                Chat-starter

                  In the past year, we did have a complaint about an unapproved structure erected on one unit. It had a direct impact on the immediate neighbour, and even if she had not complained, the EC would have issued a Rules Infringement Notice in any case. Dealing with this has dragged out over a year and at first involved trying a softly, softly approach of speaking to the unit owner, then a nice letter explaining why the structure was unacceptable (and did not serve the function it was purported to serve), then the Rules Infringement Notice. In all that our EC minutes accurately record who was to do what and why and when. We wanted an accurate paper trail that would be useful if came to it that we were accused of having done anything other than utterly by the book. 

                  In that we referred to ‘the owner of unit XX’ but that would have afforded no anonymity if minutes had been broadcast. When we reached the point that the Tribunal had given orders that the owner must comply with the infringement notice, this was fully disclosed to owners generally except for naming the names or unit number. Firstly as an item in the newsletter, then as one item in a written report from the EC chair to our AGM. In both places, the unit owner’s anonymity was preserved. We did emphasise that the ACAT’s Decisions and Reasons had upheld our unit alterations processes and we reminded unit owners of the need to follow those processes (quite liberal by most standards, but important nonetheless).

                  Then, soon after, out of the blue, at our recent AGM, a unit owner wanted to put a last minute motion that EC minutes be published and distributed to all owners within two weeks of the EC meeting. The chair refused to put the motion for many reasons that I consider valid, mainly to do with inadequate notice. Many unit owners had already submitted absentee votes or made proxy appointments without this matter being on the agenda, there was not enough time to issue a new proxy/absentee voting form, and putting the motion would be inconsistent with certain principles of meeting procedure given in a text that our first AGM adopted as the rules for meetings of the corporation.

                  The AGM degenerated in fairly ugly debating the validity of the chair’s ruling. The chair had accepted the motion (and two others) as matters for discussion but not voting under ‘Other Business’ which was specifically listed on the meeting notice/agenda as “Discussion of other matters…”. However, we didn’t get to any real discussion of the merits or otherwise of publishing minutes. 

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