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  • in reply to: Pets and apartments – an interview #30805
    peaceandquiet
    Flatchatter

      Thanks for the comprehensive article Jimmy. You’ve posted here, and before, that strata occupants’ worry about problem pets might overlook the provisions for their removal.

      As far as I understand, getting pet problems dealt with is a matter of hours of labour and months of lead time for people on the receiving end, with an uncertain outcome. Here’s an example from my strata building in VIC.

      Pets are allowed here if there’s a medical necessity. Consequently there are several medically necessary dogs on my floor alone. The six-month-old stone floors in common areas had to be resurfaced due to uncleaned messes, and cameras installed, at a shared cost to every lot (pets or not) because the culprit/s would not pay.

      Most of the dogs are relatively quiet. Possibly this is the case for most strata pets. But in high density living, it only takes one. The Owners’ Corp requested video evidence to eliminate ‘he said, she said’. So far, video of three sessions of machine gun barking has been provided. After the first two recordings were submitted to the OC, the occupants not only didn’t take better care of their pet, they got a second barking dog.

      The OC manager now says it’s a ‘civil matter’ and whoever isn’t entertained by the animals’ noise and distress will have to take the owners to VCAT personally. The owners can be asked but not required by the OC to consider their neighbours. The manager also says removing a pet is difficult—read unlikely.

      Given one bad pet owner has a widespread effect; and the fact that issues like barking and soiling are common (not a criticism of pets, just reality); and the apparent longevity and complication in resolving problems, I take no comfort in knowing there are provisions and processes.

      Any thoughts, strata gurus? Help!

      in reply to: Tribunal overturns another pet ban by-law #30796
      peaceandquiet
      Flatchatter

        On a rental front, property owners should have the right to say whether they want an animal as part of a tenancy. Market forces will turn them pro-pet if pet-inclusive tenancies prove to be a good investment.

        in reply to: Assistance Animals #30613
        peaceandquiet
        Flatchatter

          Thanks for your thoughts JimmyT. Absolutely, there’s a culture of contempt for by-laws. I question whether by-laws restricting pets are always harsh. However we live, want doesn’t equal need or right.

          In the case of my building, what’s harsh is someone with a real medical condition having to get rid of a neighbour’s pet. Even harsher is the fate of the pet, which may end up in a shelter or worse. All because it’s easy to cheat the assessment process. As some people in my building were openly owning up to doing.

          Rather than ejecting pets after they’re proven to be a nuisance or a medical problem for a neighbour, it would be kinder to people and animals to have an effective assessment process up front. One that recognises how community-minded strata pet owners need to be.

          in reply to: Assistance Animals #30585
          peaceandquiet
          Flatchatter

            Recently our strata building had a (false) fire alarm at 5am.

            We all piled out onto the street in our pyjamas clutching our nearest and dearest. I never knew so many of my neighbours had pets!

            The building (in VIC) doesn’t allow pets unless there’s a medical requirement.

            Some of us were chatting and several holding dogs swapped tips about pretending medical conditions to GPs that warrant a pet. Personally I support people having well-cared-for pets that cause no problems but it did make me cynical about the assessment of medical requirements.

            In the case of a pet owner’s neighbour being allergic to pets or debilitated by fear of them, it seems unfair that those difficulties can be trumped by a faked medical condition. Pet ownership and its impact on others needs to be taken more seriously.

            in reply to: How to make a reasonable noise complaint? #29111
            peaceandquiet
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Another update.

              I made two complaints about noise to the Owners Corp. One complaint involved two apartments which held simultaneous parties on a Saturday night (mentioned above). The other was about more party noise from one of the same apartments.

              The noise in both complaints was loud enough to wake us through double-glazing, the air conditioner running and trains passing.

              In the process of making the complaints, the OC manager and our property manager instructed me *not* to approach the noisy tenants to try to resolve things in a neighbourly way but to let the OC handle the problem.

              The OC cut and pasted my complaints into their correspondence with the tenants. The complaints were factual statements of the noise types, dates / times, origins and impact on us. In one complaint I also suggested the noise might be reduced if it were made inside, thinking this might be a way they could keep doing their thing without their noise being intrusive.

              Initially both tenants acknowledged making noise to the OC and promised to follow the OC rules moving forward.

              A notice to rectify breach was then issued to the tenant involved in both complaints.

              Both apartments’ tenants wrote ‘formal responses’ about a week later denying that their noise would bother anyone and disagreeing in their own favour about the times they were making noise. They said they have the right to entertain (they do). They said they were not having parties, just friends over for dinner (Lady Penelope’s party definition would have been useful in the OC rules). They said we should have approached them about their noise in person because they are friendly, reasonable people. One also laid on several insults and threatened legal action against us if we complained again. How friendly and reasonable.

              I’m surprised a simple matter has received an aggressive response—from two different tenants! Is this normal? Is it also normal to make a polite, factual complaint as part of a standard process; and then the resulting, quite personal hate mail be forwarded to us and all the other stakeholders by the OC?

              Since both tenants now deny the noise, the OC has requested that we record any further incidents for its use as evidence. We have responded that the OC should check the legality of this request and suggested the tenants who might be recorded may need to know about it.

              There has been no further unreasonable noise since the second complaint.

              What now?

              in reply to: How to make a reasonable noise complaint? #29075
              peaceandquiet
              Flatchatter
              Chat-starter

                Thanks for your comments and the link Jimmy T.

                I’ve obtained the OC’s ‘Special Rules’ and yes, there’s a universal rule about noise as follows:

                10.1 A Proprietor or Occupier of a Lot must not:
                (a) create any undue noise, odours, vibrations or behave in a manner likely to interfere with the peaceful enjoyment of the Proprietor or Occupier of another Lot or of any person lawfully using Common Property

                The process for obtaining some resolution seems lengthy and laborious, with an uncertain result. For our work and health’s sake we need to be able to rely on peace at home now.

                On the basis that the above rule is being breached, can we break our lease?

                in reply to: How to make a reasonable noise complaint? #29073
                peaceandquiet
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  Thanks Lady Penelope.

                  If the bylaw you detail were implemented, would this mean it was acceptable to make noise that intrudes into another lot (or cause the other problems listed e g excessive traffic) until 9pm?

                  Likewise the model bylaw that mentions music must be kept inside the boundaries of the lot after 12am?

                  I wouldn’t have thought it would be okay to make any optional noise that takes away a neighbour’s peaceful enjoyment but this is how these laws seem to read.

                  Since the noise problem tonight was finished by 9:45pm (lasting almost three hours), is it likely my complaint will be interpreted as unreasonable by the OC? The context is this is the third time we’ve been disturbed by the same tenant in less than a week; and the noise happened one day after the tenants were notified by the OC that there had been a complaint.

                  in reply to: How to make a reasonable noise complaint? #29071
                  peaceandquiet
                  Flatchatter
                  Chat-starter

                    Thanks Austman.

                    An update.

                    Saturday night was diabolical with competing party noise until 1:20am from two neighbouring apartments’ courtyard and balcony including fighting, screaming and running in the common hallway.

                    I made a complaint to OC management and the building manager. I also let our property manager know.

                    Yesterday a letter went out to all residents concluding by saying, as a general guideline, to keep noise in our own apartments. It also mentioned a special condition in the OC bylaws that require balconies and courtyards to be used with consideration for other residents.

                    Additionally the OC advised a complaint was made to the property managers of the two noisy tenants.

                    Our property manager said the OC had taken appropriate action and they would not do anything further at this point.

                    Bumped into the building manager in the car park, he said the tenants had apologised and promised the noise would not happen again.

                    Now the apartment with the courtyard is at it again *one day* later. It’s a Tuesday night. All we can hear inside our completely closed up apartment is their loud conversation.

                    What can we do next?

                    in reply to: Is strata the solution for noisy neighbours? VIC #29036
                    peaceandquiet
                    Flatchatter
                    Chat-starter

                      Many thanks for your thoughtful advice.

                      Just an update: we ended up selling our house.

                      The problem neighbours were owners. The EPA advised it no longer deals with residential matters: those have been handed off to council and police.

                      At council’s request we provided photos, recordings and a log of noise and other antisocial behaviour to council and police. Council visited the neighbours and the noise became worse.

                      Police visited the neighbours but usually too late i e after 4-5 hours or not at all because (as they tell you) noise is the lowest priority of any call. When they did catch them in the act they only gave them a warning, not a fine. So predictably, the noise and abuse became worse again.

                      I’ve learned that the authorities whose job it is to protect our peaceful enjoyment, don’t do their job. I would suggest to others in the same position not to waste their time jumping through council’s hoops. Neither were the police effective.

                      I wouldn’t have believed it until it happened to us but when neighbours are unreasonable, moving is the only way to get a peaceful home.

                    Viewing 9 replies - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)