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  • #11078 Reply | Quote
    FrustratedLNS
    Flatchatter

      Hi I have searched the forum so I apologise if this has been covered previously.

      I have recently become aware that the Chairman thinks he has independent decision making power when I recently questioned a decision to allow pruning of common trees by a handyman for one owner, which removed a massive chunk of tree coverage for my balcony which provided privacy from the apartment block opposite. 

      The chairman is a bully so I asked the Strata Managers about it. They seem to just flick email contents between us. Initially the response was that the Strata Committee  made the decision but when I spoke to a committee memeber he conceded it wasn’t raised at all. The Chairman then conceded he made the decision alone and it was within his ‘overview’ as Chairman.

      After searching this forum and learning the proper legislative requirementss, I challenged his capacity to make any decisions alone, and asked Strata Partners for any relevant bylaws etc and whether they agreed his role as Chairman did not extent to unilateral decisions. They ignored my request. 4 weeks I waited.

      I have chased it up and advised that I think the office holders (Chair, Treasurer, Scertary, held by two owners) think they are an ‘executive committee’ and can  make delisions (now painting common areas), and I have never seen notice of a Strata Committee meeting, minutes of outcomes etc. 3 days later and still no reply.

      Am I right? The Chairman cannot make decisions alone, the proper process with the strata committee must be followed and otherwise the decisions are not valid. What can I do about the Strata Managers just ignoring me? If I am right this is a very important issue with the Chairman illegally interfering with common property and illegally spending owners’ money. Thanks!

    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
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    • #26938 Reply
      Sir Humphrey
      Flatchatter

        Individual committee members can’t make unilateral decisions. In practice, there might be some minor things for which it is reasonable to ignore formalities. Eg. one committee member, who knows about the common property lighting, might just go ahead and replace a bulb whenever a light is out and might just go ahead and call the OC’s usual electrician if replacing the bulb didn’t fix it. 

        Also, our ground contractor does routine pruning as they see fit to keep paths clear and for the general health and appearance of our plants. In addition, various unit owners and committee members might occasionally just snip off a bit that obviously needs doing without asking anyone. We might even remove a certain type of small tree that is not intentional and comes up as a weed around here. 

        If there was someone complaining that things were going beyond reasonable, trivial and flexible into unreasonable, substantial and unjustifiably unilateral, and that is what you are saying, then, as an EC member, I would want to cover our arses by being extra diligent about recording a resolution to do each thing or to formalise delegations to do things (eg. ‘Member X is delegated to fixing lights’). I would also say that we should be extra careful to make sure reasons for decisions were recorded. That way we could demonstrate our reasonable efforts to make the right decisions, openly, with transparency etc. Self-defence, even if we thought we were being entirely reasonable. 

        In practice members of committees I have been on would spend money on some routine stuff without asking each time and get reimbursed, but this was for things that were obvious and minor and the relevant people had done it before and always kept receipts and so on. Eg. buying some replacement light bulbs. We were always able to rely on committee members’ good sense to know when something was no longer minor and needed a committee decision. Eg. We have a budget for tree surgery and one person tends to handle tree matters (Handily, she has a forestry degree so knows about trees). She would get quotes for what she thought needed doing, but she would not go ahead until her recommendation had been approved by the committee. Also, we would not go ahead with any substantial work on a tree until she had talked to the unit owners that might be effected by it. 

        So, no, your chair should not unilaterally approve pruning of common property trees, at least not if it was obvious that it would have an effect on your unit. 

        As it happens, I was subject to just this sort of complaint not long ago. I helped a neighbour remove several leggy and overgrown large bushes/small trees from her unit boundary. One of her neighbours complained that we had also removed stuff from her garden (We didn’t.) and that we had effected the privacy and outlook from her unit (It could not have.). The accusation was quite bizarre because she would have to be able to see through a brick wall for the plants we removed to have had such an effect. We had talked to the people who could plausibly have been effected and they were all happy with the gardening we were doing. 

        #26944 Reply
        FrustratedLNS
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Thanks Sir Humphrey

          And should the Strata Manager do something if the Chairman has declared he thinks he has that right as Chairman? I can’t believe they are just ignoring me.

          I am worried that the Chairperson and people on the Strata Committee (mostly the same people for years) have not even looked at how things are meant to be done properly – no notices of meetings or minutes etc, no proper voting and leaving the Chairman to do what he wants, which is probably favours for the longstanding owners. The Strata Managers should address this shouldn’t they? They are on notice the legislation has been ignored and the made up system is a blatant disregard for the owners’ rights.

          If Strata Partners continue to ignore me, is there a professional body to whom I can complain?

          Can I demand an audit to see how money has been spent and decisions have been made, on invalid authority? How can I make sure proper processes are followed when the Chairman is a bully and the Strata Managers ignore me? Thank you.

          #26947 Reply
          Sir Humphrey
          Flatchatter

            If at all possible, I suggest trying to find a sympathetic ear on the committee. If one person will listen, then that person as a committee member has a responsibility to supervise the treasurer and other office holders and see that money is spent with proper authority in accordance with the budget approved by the AGM and so on. They should have access to the accounts, most likely through the manager’s web site with a committee log on. 

            Another option is to do that yourself having been elected at the next AGM. 

            Another option is to visit the managing agent’s office having arranged to inspect the OC records. Any owner is entitled to do that. Take notes and then ask specific questions of the treasurer about what particular payments were for if they are not annotated sufficiently to work out. 

            The strata manager might be slack but they might also be in a difficult position. They act for the OC as instructed by the committee and have to do as they are told, unless it would be clearly illegal. 

            If you do some poking about, that might be enough to have the committee and manager being a little more careful to have things tightened up and more clearly kosher. 

            #26965 Reply
            FrustratedLNS
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Thank you. I would have thought that since the strata managers answer to the owners corporation, ie all owners including me, that that makes it even more important for them to intervene if they know one or two owners are breaching the legislation and that the strata committee is not functioning in accordance with the law, since all owners’ rights are affected and so common property is being interfered with and money is being spent, without the proper process being followed by law.

              It is very frustrating that the administrative title holders think they form an ‘executive committee’ and just make decisions unfairly and spend money and the strata mangers are on notice of this and ignore it.  

              If I am going to suggest a motion, I should suggest that we get new strata managers, what is the point of paying for that so called expertise if they are not checking the owners know how the SC should function and just ignore an owner complaining that the very fundamental processes are not being followed!

              #26966 Reply
              Sir Humphrey
              Flatchatter

                The strata manager would be wise to cover his own arse by having it in writing that they advised the committee appropriately if the committee is acting contrary to the law. 

                It seems to me that the chair is your target, not the strata manager. Ultimately, the buck stops with the committee. 

                #26971 Reply
                FrustratedLNS
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  Yes, I agree. I am gobsmacked that they are just ignoring me.

                  I just spoke to a SC member who had no idea about the requirements under the act for the conduct of SC meetings and said that after each AGM the SC meets and has a general discussion but otherwise says all ‘maintenance’ is delegated to the Chairman!! No other meetings! 

                  I assume – given that they have no idea of proper processes – that this alleged delegation was not done except informally, but surely the SC cannot simply delegate ‘maintenance’ to the Chairman or any one owner. That would defy the purpose of having elected representatives to ensure appropriate decisions are made???

                  If there was any legally binding instrument delegating that authority to the Chairman, surely that would be apparent on sale of the units…and surely that alone would make the apartments un-sellable – who would buy a unit where some random bully has unilateral control over any ‘maintenence’ decisions?

                  Any attempt to even enforce such delegation would have to be by special resolution at a meeting of all owners, given the impact of the same??

                  Argh. 

                  #26973 Reply
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster

                    The act allows a tremendous amount of leeway for strata committee members who act “in good faith”.  

                    However, you can puncture that protective balloon by writing to them and telling them that they are running the building improperly, maintenance can only be decided by the owners corporation (or the strata committee acting on their behalf) and that in future – now that they know there are procedures that have to be followed – committee members who make arbitrary decisions without holding meetings with proper agendas and votes could be held personally responsible for the costs of the work or any complaints against them.

                    That should get their attention. If it doesn’t point out the following clauses in the Act.

                    9 Owners corporation responsible for management of strata scheme
                    (1) The owners corporation for a strata scheme has the principal responsibility for the management of the scheme.
                    (2) The owners corporation has, for the benefit of the owners of lots in the strata scheme:
                    (a) the management and control of the use of the common property of the strata scheme, and
                    (b) the administration of the strata scheme.
                    (3) The owners corporation has responsibility for the following:
                    (a) managing the finances of the strata scheme (see Part 5),
                    (b) keeping accounts and records for the strata scheme (see Parts 5 and 10),
                    (c) maintaining and repairing the common property of the strata scheme (see Part 6),
                    (d) taking out insurance for the strata scheme (see Part 9).

                    10 Functions of owners corporation generally
                    (1) An owners corporation has such other functions as may be conferred or imposed on it by or under this or any other Act.
                    (2) An owners corporation must not delegate any of its functions to a person unless the delegation is specifically authorised by this Act.

                    Re section 10 (2), I can’t find anything that specifically allow the owners corp of committee to delegate decisions on maintenance to one person.

                    37 Duty of members of strata committee
                    It is the duty of each member of a strata committee of an owners corporation to carry out his or her functions for the benefit, so far as practicable, of the owners corporation and with due care and diligence

                    If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
                    #26980 Reply
                    FrustratedLNS
                    Flatchatter
                    Chat-starter

                      Thanks Jimmy, it is very frustrating.  How is it that these people can sit on a Committee for years and years and never ask what they are meant to be doing.  Particularly the bully chairman who loves throwing his weight around.  We have a Strata Manager with (presumably) expertise in the area, all they had to do was ask!  It is mind boggling.  

                      The SC member last night was very aggressive and hostile because she knew I had complained about the pruning. I know the Chairman will be the same, when they should all be ashamed of themselves.

                      As soon as it is clear they have been breaching the legislation for years I am going to make submissions that owners are entitled to an audit of the finances and all decisions affecting the common property (I worry the necessary paperwork doesn’t exist if I try sell my place) since we have been denied due process and transparency in the decisions and we are entitled to know exactly what he has been up to and I am not paying for it!

                       

                      Thanks again, this forum is fantastic – so much information on here.

                      #26983 Reply
                      Sir Humphrey
                      Flatchatter

                        @FrustratedLNS said:
                        …As soon as it is clear they have been breaching the legislation for years I am going to make submissions that owners are entitled to an audit of the finances and all decisions affecting the common property (I worry the necessary paperwork doesn’t exist if I try sell my place) since we have been denied due process and transparency in the decisions and we are entitled to know exactly what he has been up to and I am not paying for it!

                        Why not arrange to visit the managing agent’s office and ask for a copy of the ‘Account Payments’ for (say) the past 12 months? If they use software anything like the software our managing agent has, they should be able to produce a complete list of every payment from any date to any other date, and do so almost instantly. Then work through that till you have a list of questions for the treasurer.

                        If possible, ask to arrange a time with the treasurer to work through it face to face. Much of it will be routine eg. 85% of the expenses of our OC are for three items: our managing agent’s monthly fee, our grounds maintenance guys monthly bill and the annual insurance. All the rest is relatively small beer such as some plants, some mulch, some repairs to a bin enclosure, printing a newsletter, replacement light globes, an electrician call out to repair a light etc. You might find there is a reasonable explanation for everything or you might find the smoking gun you should focus your attention on. 

                        #26984 Reply
                        Lady Penelope
                        Flatchatter

                          It appears that in addition to the SC Chairperson acting ultra vires, there are issues with SC transparency at FrustratedLNS’s scheme.

                          These are easily fixed. May I suggest that FrustratedLNS nominates for a committee position at the next AGM so as to be ‘in the loop’.

                          May I also suggest the following procedures be worked through to tighten the ‘informal’ workings of the current SC:

                          (1) FrustratedLNS raises a Motion at the next AGM which deals with the issue of SC spending limits. The OC at a General Meeting Motion grant the SC a maximum spending limit. The amount should be dependent on the number of Lots in the scheme. Common property plant pruning may then fit within the SC spending limit. If not then the matter would need to be decided at a General Meeting.

                          (2) The SC could then approve common property pruning at either an SC meeting or outside of an SC meeting via email etc (if this is permitted at the scheme). To vote outside of a committee meeting the SC may pass a resolution to adopt any of the following means of voting by the committee:

                          • voting by teleconference, video-conferencing, email or other electronic means by a member while participating in a meeting from a remote location,  or
                          • voting by email or other technological means before the meeting at which the matter is to be determined by the committee. This can include accessing a voting website or even a Facebook page. This form of voting cannot be used for the election of officers of the strata committee.

                          Unlike general meetings, the strata committee can vote on a motion even though a meeting was not held, if the committee votes in writing. For this to be a valid vote,  the correct procedure for giving notice of the meeting must have been followed and a copy of the motion to be voted on should be given to each committee member.

                          The motion is approved if the majority of strata committee members, other than any tenant member, approve the passing of the motion in writing.

                          (3) Any SC decisions made outside of an SC meeting would need to be Minuted at the next SC meeting for transparency. It is a requirement that the SC keep a record of all decisions. The minutes must include details of all resolutions passed, including those considered without holding a meeting.

                          #27021 Reply
                          FrustratedLNS
                          Flatchatter
                          Chat-starter

                            Thank you for the further suggestions

                            #27024 Reply
                            Jimmy-T
                            Keymaster

                              This is the second discussion, and from two different people in the past week that has used they phrase “ultra vires“.

                              As I am a bear of little brain, I had to look it up to be sure it mean “beyond their legal remit or capacity”.

                              It’s good to know what it means, but I don’t think we’ll be seeing it again. 

                              If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
                              #27046 Reply
                              Topsheila
                              Flatchatter

                                I would think anyone using the words “ultra vires” would have a legal background, eg, lawyer, law clerk or legal secretary.

                                #27069 Reply
                                Sir Humphrey
                                Flatchatter

                                  I have heard ‘ultra vires’ used quite a lot over the last 8-9 years that I was an EC member. Sometimes appropriately by lawyers, other times from various grumpy EC and OC members.

                                  #27232 Reply
                                  FrustratedLNS
                                  Flatchatter
                                  Chat-starter

                                    Ultra vires is generally used when legislation gives someone power and they act in excess of that power. I gave myself away! – I am a lawyer, a litigator. Not a property litigator but one of the benefits of partnership in a biggish firm is that fellow partners who do specialise in relevant areas will forever be happy to help ( and I know how aggressive they are as litigators and of their results!). It is interesting that the property partners’ input is consistent with my own reading of the legislation and case law, and the input from this helpful forum – I was curious about the anecdotal experience on this forum, it really is a great resource.

                                    So another glib and dismissive response despite it now being abundantly clear none of the Committee even know what steps must be taken to make valid decisions. No idea that all owners are entitled to know everything before it is considered and decided. No idea it’s not ok for one person to just make ad hoc decisions, especially if they adversely affect one owner. But apparently couldn’t care less. I am not sure why they think my concerns are going to go away when they have been completely ignoring the legislation! Or how the Strata company thinks they can be aware that the SC is ignoring the most basic requirements and not act on that – why are we paying them, their unprofessional reaction explains why it’s been going on so long – – we need a new company appointed. Anyway it isn’t going to go away. It’s gobsmacking that SC members are apparently anxious about the ongoing ‘issue’, but no one has said ‘what are we meant to be doing, Strata company tell us and we’ll give reassurance the proper process will be followed from now on, and we’ll make decisions in a fair and transparent way and we apologise for the pruning disrupting your privacy’.

                                    At least the court can see from the exchanges over the last few months that I have carefully raised the concerns and they have been ignored/dismissed (whoever thought those responses were clever or cute might get a rude shock when they form part of submissions; as a litigator I am always conscious what will be handed up to the court) and it’s a good basis to explain why mediation is pointless and we proceed straight for judicial intervention.

                                    So my property brethren have some great ideas of what orders should be sought and what summons must be served to compel production of correspondence and emails etc to demonstrate that the requirements are knowingly being ignored, by the SC and Strata company, even despite me raising genuine concerns and reasonable questions months ago. First stop is reviewing the formal records- they want to chase down every cent and every piece of paperwork that should exist …and to see if any other concerns about what is going on should be raised, esp if it uncovers anomalies with $ with one person making all maintenance decisions.

                                    I’ll report back how it all goes.

                                    And some property in the secure garage floor (secure garage, individual cages) has been stolen so I’m now having to report that to the police in the event that it is related and becomes an ongoing issue, but fortunately I have someone coming to go through various nannycam options to monitor my car space with those hidden camera things so I can look back to the footage if anything happens But whilst I install that to monitor that area at least it makes sense to also put up cameras monitoring the balconies and trees from all my windows and balcony doors, so maybe I’ll also get evidence of why so much crap ends up on my balcony and any other relevant activity! The joys of apartment living!

                                  Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 16 total)
                                  Reply To: Rogue Chairman and Strata Manager ignoring my correspondence
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