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  • #81877 Reply | Quote
    pipo
    Flatchatter

      We live in an eight apartment block on the lower north shore.  Cost of two bedroom apartments is $1.4m and three bedrooms $1.7m.

      A builder told us we have concrete cancer in some of our balconies and advised the cost would be $85k to $110k per balcony.  The engineer we employed has said we need to jackhammer up all balcony tiles, put a membrane down, reinforce our balcony balustrades which are brick with render, replace our balcony doors, etc.

      We are on the ground floor less than 1m off the ground which means we do not need to comply with the building code but our committee has employed a lawyer which has advised us we will need to take on all liabilities for the balustrades which includes future owners.  We have advised we will not accept the bylaw and its liabilities.

      We have now agreed to the balcony reinforcement which will mean a large loss of our balcony’s area which is already small.  The engineer has recommended to build another 13cm thick wall to reinforce the existing 13cm wall.

      The owners corporation has now employed a legal firm against us which has cost approximately $5k so far without seeking owners corporation approval.  The strata manager, who was named in the ABC 2 ‘The Strata Trap’ has advised because each invoice is below $3k they do not need to ask owners corporation approval.

      Is this right?  If a legal firm divides their invoices so that they are under $3k even though the total is $5k+ does that mean they do not need owners corporation approval.

      Thank you so much for your thoughts.

    Viewing 5 replies - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)
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    • #81880 Reply
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster
        There’s a lot to unpack in this but it’s best to start with the simple fact that as an owner, you are jointly responsible, with all the other owners, for the maintenance and repair of common property, and you have to pay your share of the costs, proportionate to your unit entitlements (the amount by which your levies are calculated). But let’s look at the indivdual issues.

        A builder told us we have concrete cancer in some of our balconies and advised the cost would be $85k to $110k per balcony.

        See my comment above. You will be expected to pay your calculated share of the total cost.

        … our committee has employed a lawyer which has advised us we will need to take on all liabilities for the balustrades which includes future owners. We have advised we will not accept the bylaw and its liabilities.

        This sounds like they are saying you need a common property by-law for your balcony if you want to not be part of the general repair.  What they are asking you to do is put your money where your mouth is – if you are saying your balcony doesn’t need repair, they are saying, okay, then take responsibility for it, now and into the future.

        That doesn’t sound unreasonable to me.  Right now, the OC (body corporate) is responsible for all the balconies and has a legal duty to repair and maintain them.  If you want to opt out, it can only be on the basis that you accept ongoing responsibility.  But even that won’t remove your responsibility for your share of the repairs to the other balconies.

        Someone has to be legally responsible for every part of any strata building.  Strata law is structured so that if the OC gives up responsibility for a part of common property, then someone, usually that the lot owner, has to take over that responsibility.

        We have now agreed to the balcony reinforcement which will mean a large loss of our balcony’s area which is already small. The engineer has recommended to build another 13cm thick wall to reinforce the existing 13cm wall.

        This is worth questioning, at least to see if there is a better solution that doesn’t impact on your space.  If that level of work is demonstrably not necessary, then you could get the OC  to agree to take it off the work schedule – it will protect your space  but only save money from the overall bill.

        If a legal firm divides their invoices so that they are under $3k even though the total is $5k+ does that mean they do not need owners corporation approval.

        Some strata management companies have become notorious for “creative” practices but that doesn’t mean everything their strata managers do is dubious. Also, it would cost you more to hire a lawyer to prove that there was some jiggery-pokery here than you would save from your share of the legal fees – and all the additional charges that will accrue as the OC’s lawyers ramp up their fight against you – and seek all costs as well.

        Don’t forget, the dodgy lawyer’s five favourite words: “It’s a matter of principle.”

        In your position, I would not waste another iota of energy or a cent of money fighting this.  But I would ask the other owners if there is a compromise solution that will cost everyone less and would have less of an impact on you directly.

        And I would be pressing the OC to examine the best way of financing the work – including a strata loan – so that you are not hit too hard when the bills have to be paid.

        If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
        #81964 Reply
        pipo
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          I think something was lost in translation.  We have no problem in contributing to the cost of repairing our balcony and others (even though as I said we are less than 1m off the ground and therefore do not need to reinforce our balustrade).  We have owned in strata for over 40 years and understand and accept that whatever works need to be done on common property that ALL owners need to contribute.  This is not our first round of concrete cancer.

          I do not believe in strata finance as my career has been spent in finance so I’d prefer that the onus is on each owner even if they have to mortgage their own unit.  Strata finance means that all owners are joint and severally liable for all owners ie if one owner can’t pay then all owners are on the hook.  I also feel that anyone thinking of buying in will be turned off by any debt.

          The question I was seeking to answer was my understanding is if the owners corporation/executive committee feel the need to seek legal advice that if that advice is over $3k then it needs to be referred to all owners via a meeting.  Our executive committee have now spent over $5k without referring to the owners corporation.  The strata manager which is not Net Strata says because each invoice is below $3k they don’t need to convene a meeting of all owners.  My belief is that is a bit cute given we have to contribute to the legal advice against us.

          We have a strata lawyer (one of the best known) and they have told us to send letters from us and not from the lawyer to avoid inflaming the situation which we have done.  I thought I’d ask the forum about legal costs to avoid paying $650 per hour.

          My father who is terminally ill is why the works the OC are suggesting eventhough not necessary will be difficult for us.

           

           

          #81983 Reply
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            I think something was lost in translation.

            My bad.  I was confused by the amount of additional detail.

            Firstly, $3k seems awfully low for a ceiling on unauthorised legal bills.  However, if you can show that what arrived as multiple low-ball bills should have been presented as one bill, then you have a case.  What you would do with that case is another matter entirely and I have to say I’m at a loss except to suggest that you ask the OC to set a more realistic limit at your next AGM so as to avoid future shenanigans.

            If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
            #82087 Reply
            pipo
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              This is what my research says:

              “In New South Wales, a strata owners corporation generally does not need approval from a general meeting for non-urgent legal fees under $3,000. This exception also applies to legal services for recovering unpaid contributions, obtaining advice before legal action, or urgent matters costing under $15,000.” 

              Given the $3k the OC seeking legal advice is non urgent, our SM and committee believe they don’t need to seek  OC approval as long as each lawyer’s bill is below $3k.

              The legal fees now total $5k, is it reasonable that the EC does not seek OC approval even though the lawyer is dealing with the same matter and the total cost is now $5k +.

              Also, the legal advice the OC has sought is against us even though we don’t need to comply as our balustrade is less than 1m from the ground (yes we had our own own engineer confirm this).

              Do we have a legitimate argument to ask that we shouldn’t need to pay towards the legal fees that the OC has spent against us.

              We have agreed to the reinforcement of our balcony even though we don’t need to comply under the building code.  We will lose 2sqm of our balcony which will mean our aircon compressor will pour out heat where we sit on our balcony.  Our balconies are not that big.

              Any thoughts you have would be very much appreciated.

              Thank you

               

               

               

              #82094 Reply
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                The OC is obliged by law to charge everyone for work done on common property, the costs shared according to their unit entitlements.  However, if you feel the work on your balcony in not necessary, and you are being unfairly impacted, you can apply to Fair Trading and NCAT for orders that the work not be done. The cost saving to you will be minimal, but you will be spared the disruption and loss of space and amenity. Have a look at section 232 and consider raising the issue through mediation at Fair Trading, in the first instance.

                Regarding the legal fees, if you do go to NCAT and the OC loses, then the cost of their legal action against you must be raised from a special levy from which you must be excluded. That said, you have to take it to NCAT and you have to win.

                I would forget the issue of the $3000 limit. It would cost you more to argue that in the Tribunal or a court than you would  save.

                Going back to your original post, you say the OC’s lawyer: “has advised us we will need to take on all liabilities for the balustrades which includes future owners.  We have advised we will not accept the bylaw and its liabilities.”

                This is standard practice when one owner wants something done differently with common property attached to their lot. If you are sure your balustrade is building code compliant, why not go with this?

                If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
              Viewing 5 replies - 1 through 5 (of 5 total)
              Reply To: Reply #81964 in Forced to fix balcony balustrade even though it is compliant
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