Forums Living in strata Current Page

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  • #82376 Reply | Quote
    suti1
    Flatchatter

      TLDR: I have granted my brother keys to my apartment that I own, however strata considers him a guest and does not let him use common property without my presence.

      I own an apartment in NSW.
      This is not an investment property. I do not commercially rent it and I do not Air BNB it. I do not claim any tax deductions in relation to the property. This is officially my PPOR although I also stay at my partner’s PPOR when my work requirements dictate.
      I have given my brother a set of security fob and keys to my apartment.
      There are no other fobs and he does not lend the fob to anyone else (and nor do I).
      My brother has my verbal approval to do whatever he likes while he is in my apartment, as long as it is not illegal.
      We are both shift workers. If my brother has late shifts and has another early one the next day then he’ll stay. Similar with me, otherwise I’ll go back to my partners house.
      My brother also uses the common facilities: gym, pool, BBQ, and tennis courts.
      When he uses these facilities, he follows the requirements for owners and occupiers as per the strata and building management schemes. Ie for the tennis court he puts his name down to reserve the court for an hour to play with his mate, or 3 other mates to play doubles.
      A member of the Strata committee has taken exception to this and says that my brother is a “guest”, and that as a “guest”, he “cannot use the common facilities without me, being the owner, being there at all times” (quoted from the Strata rules).
      As a member of the Strata committee, that person has presumably bullied their fellow members and the building manager to enforce this, leading to police being called to “evict” my brother for trespass of the tennis court earlier this week. I am trying to obtain a police report on why the police were called in the first place. I am sure the police have better things to do.
      I have been advised that my brother’s fob access has now been restricted and does not allow for the use of common facilities. I do not know on what grounds under the strata plan this has been done. I am concerned that they will restrict his use of the lift next.

      So, the question is, is my brother an “occupier” of my apartment? Occupier is defined as “any lessee, sub lessee, licensee, sub licensee, occupier or mortgagee in possession of a Lot” in the Strata plan. Yes the definition also includes the word occupier…

      The Strata Schemes Management Act, 2015 (NSW) says: “occupier” of a lot means a person in lawful occupation of the lot: https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ssda2015279/s4.html

      I have repeatedly told the Strata committee that I believe my brother meets the definition of “occupier”. Do I have to formalise my verbal board agreement with him into a ‘ written lease’ to satisfy the Strata’s “occupier” definition? Even then they say they do not agree. They say he is not a resident and does not sleep there regularly. I cannot find any mention of the word resident and sleep in the by laws. They have even said that licence details need to be changed which again I do not think is legally correct.

      At this stage they are just bullying us. I can see that even if we fold and say he is a “guest”, they will make up another rule, ie if I go read a book next to the pool while he swims, they’ll still find a way to kick him out.  Next time, they may use the same rules to bully more fragile owners’ relatives such as parents and grandparents of owners.

    Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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    • #82379 Reply
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        When he uses these facilities, he follows the requirements for owners and occupiers as per the strata and building management schemes. Ie for the tennis court he puts his name down to reserve the court for an hour to play with his mate, or 3 other mates to play doubles.

        Well, there may lie your problem.  The committee doesn’t like the idea of four “non-residents” playing on their tennis court. (BTW, that must surely meet the definition of “First World Problem”).  Simple solution, register your brother as a tenant on the strata roll.  Then he must be allowed all the rights and privileges of any other tenant and anyone who tries to prevent that is guilty of harassment.

        Meanwhile you could apply for mediation with a view to taking action at the tribunal under Section 232 of the Act.

        232   Orders to settle disputes or rectify complaints

        (1) Orders relating to complaints and disputes
        The Tribunal may, on application by an interested person, original owner or building manager, make an order to settle a complaint or dispute about any of the following—

        (a)  the operation, administration or management of a strata scheme under this Act

        Just applying for mediation may get them to pull their heads in.  And don’t get bogged down in matters of principle as in, you don’t see why you should have to do anything. Do what needs to be done to shut this down. This should be an easy fix and if the committee has a problem with your brother’s behaviour, then they have avenues they can pursue too.

        FYI I know of a developer who claims they are a resident because they let apartments on airbnb and short-term lets are considered residential under our cockamamie laws in NSW.

        If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
        1 user thanked author for this post.
        #82385 Reply
        suti1
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Simple solution, register your brother as a tenant on the strata roll.

          Thanks Jimmy, I have already hinted to the building manager this will happen however he also says that they will need a drivers licence update as proof he “sleeps here” and is a “resident”. Is this legal?

           

          Meanwhile you could apply for mediation with a view to taking action at the tribunal under Section 232 of the Act.

          Thank you for this.

          #82387 Reply
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            Thanks Jimmy, I have already hinted to the building manager this will happen however he also says that they will need a drivers licence update as proof he “sleeps here” and is a “resident”. Is this legal?

            I don’t think so. This is what the Fair Trading website says:

            Tenancy notices

            A landlord or their real estate agent must notify the owners corporation in writing of a lease. This allows the strata roll to be kept up to date.

            The notice must be provided within 14 days of the start of the lease.

            The notice must include:

            • name of the tenant
            • address for the tenant to receive notices
            • start date of the lease, and
            • the name of the landlord’s agent.

            Where a landlord or their agent fails to provide the tenancy notice, the tenant may provide the notice to the owners corporation.

            Go to the Fair Trading website and download the official tenancy form.  Only you need to be satisfied that your brother is who he says he is.  The strata manager or building manager has no right to demand ID unless it’s for the purposes of picking up registered mail or something similar.

             

            If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
            1 user thanked author for this post.
            #82424 Reply
            suti1
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Thanks Jimmy.

              We will get the mediation process under way as well because the building manager has decided to disable access to the pool for my brother based on a by law “An owner or occupier must not give a Security Key to someone who is not an owner or occupier”. It still works on the front complex door and the lift although we haven’t tried the other facilities yet. Based on this by-law he needs to completely block my brother’s access to the whole building or not block anything at all! He is just making it up now and completely harassing us.

              Will keep you updated.

               

              #82448 Reply
              Flame Tree (Qld)
              Flatchatter

                People on committees can be insufferable, can’t they? I’d write up and register with them minimum required details occupier notice. Beyond that tell them to go jump – and if they demand ID tell them you first.

                1 user thanked author for this post.
                #82473 Reply
                UberOwner
                Flatchatter

                  For all the Committee knows, your brother could be a FIFO worker or airline employee who comes and goes and shares your flat when he’s in town. You’ve probably told them differently, but the FIFO scenario is not materially different to your actual situation. You’re entitled to have a tenant and your tenant is entitled to access the facilities. As Jimmy has suggested, formalise the tenancy and then start proceedings towards mediation on the grounds that they are denying access to your legitimate tenant. If you have a SM, you might ask that person to intervene also. If the SM is any good, he or she will know the law around tenancy rights in strata.

                  1 user thanked author for this post.
                  #82476 Reply
                  suti1
                  Flatchatter
                  Chat-starter

                    UberOwner wrote:
                    If you have a SM, you might ask that person to intervene also. If the SM is any good, he or she will know the law around tenancy rights in strata.

                    Unfortunately the building/strata manager is part of the problem. If he is being pushed by the Committees he needs to push back if the Committee is asking him to do something that is not allowed/required under the bylaws or legislation but he is not. He is a yes person or he is part of the bullying problem. Or both.

                    The building/strata manager has given me the buildings/stratas own tenant registration form to fill in, which contains all required info as required by law, which we filled in but now he is actually demanding the standard nsw tenancy agreement template because he doesn’t believe my brother is a legitimate tenant.  I’ve asked where in the legislation he requires this. Even if i produce this, I am sure he will next ask for ID. It will never end.

                    And yes in the meantime, proceedings for mediation are underway.

                    #82485 Reply
                    Flame Tree (Qld)
                    Flatchatter

                      If they have asked for identifying info and you’ve given it, and mediation is underway, there is not much more to be done on your side. Best advice if once been given was to tell them to ‘#@&$ off and shut the door’. I did that 5 years ago and tho the committee is apparently still wailing, I’ve moved on and just ignore them on the issue completely. Life is much better without their added stress and suggest you let them do all the work and ignore them too.

                    Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
                    Reply To: Reply #82448 in Is a family member an ‘occupier’ (NSW)
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