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@JimmyT said:If I was in a building where the SM set the agenda and budget without consulting the committee, I would have them removed at the first opportunity.
In reality it happens.
It’s pretty much what all of my SMs have done in NSW, ACT and VIC since 1979. I don’t necessarily agree with it but IME it’s what they do. A routine, generic type of agenda. But as I also mentioned, my current SMs will change the AGM agenda if you are quick to request it.
The main point I wanted to make is that good committees can make a huge difference (as the OP seems to have noted). And many or most matters need not wait until a GM.
I wonder what the OP’s matters actually were? And if they even needed a GM authority? Fair enough if they did.
@JimmyT said:There’s no “other business” allowed at NSW general meetings. If it’s not on the agenda, it shouldn’t be discussed and certainly can’t be voted on.
It’s allowed, certainly not only in Victoria. There can’t be a motion/vote on it. But it probably was once one of the most important parts of the AGM. It’s where owners used to raise and discus issues that they thought important.
For me, as an OC chair and committee member of multiple OCs, it’s largely now been replaced by anytime email.
@JimmyT said:
Reading the rest of your post, I think it’s fair to say that the system in Victoria is totally and fundamentally different from NSW and so it’s probably unwise to project what works in one state on to the other.Although it has many differences, I would not agree that the system in Victoria is “totally and fundamentally different from NSW”.
I think AGMs are still important. It’s when the committee is elected. They seem to be more important in larger OC/BCs.
@JimmyT said:I couldn’t disagree more.
…If the strata manager is just going ahead and setting the agenda and the budget without consultation with the committee how can a building change for the better?
Basically because, at least in Victoria, AGMs don’t much matter anymore.
I’ve been to hundreds of them and they are mostly just formalities except for “other business”. Most owners don’t even bother attending. I’ve never yet been to one that has achieved a quorum (in nearly 40 years). I’ve been to several where it was just me and the strata manager. The budget is usually just a projection based on the past year’s expenses.
According to my SMs (some of the biggest in Australia), it’s only when there’s a major financial decision on the AGM agenda that attendance numbers swell.
IME it’s the rest of the year that really matters. And that’s where active strata committees make a huge difference. They handle problems and issues as they occur and get things done for the benefit of the owners and occupiers. My committees actively engage on important issues with owners and occupiers throughout the year. Why wait to the AGM to inform them? IMO the AGM is becoming a bit of a nuisance. But at least it does give owners a chance to present GM motions for free. And to turn up to meet fellow owners. And to optionally elect a new committee (in Victoria that does not need to be done). And to of course set a budget. My committees often have to undo that budget later in the year anyway.
All my SMs allow changes to their AGM agenda by any owner who wants to add to the agenda. But they do have to be quick about it.
To note that in Victoria, around 25% of the population live in OCs (source: SCA). But the average OC size is 8.44 lots (source: SCA). So most strata occupiers are not living in large strata schemes. Sometimes I think too much attention is paid to issues for larger strata schemes when most people are in fact living in smaller strata schemes. Being a committee member in both I do see a difference in how the scheme/committee/manager functions even if it is under the same law.
Every strata manager in every state/territory in which I have been a strata owner has been given the right to run most of the OC/BC functions. This includes some of the largest strata management firms in Australia. It is a delegation of authority usually done at each AGM.
Included in that delegation of authority is the authority to call and conduct AGMs.
Even as an OC chair I’ve rarely been consulted by a SM about the AGM except for perhaps setting the date and location.
To be honest I don’t think it’s so important. An active strata committee has very many other options in the general running of an OC/BC.
@peaceandquiet said:
I’ve obtained the OC’s ‘Special Rules’ and yes, there’s a universal rule about noise as follows:10.1 A Proprietor or Occupier of a Lot must not:
(a) create any undue noise, odours, vibrations or behave in a manner likely to interfere with the peaceful enjoyment of the Proprietor or Occupier of another Lot or of any person lawfully using Common PropertyOn the basis that the above rule is being breached, can we break our lease?
I doubt it. “Peaceful enjoyment” in the OC Act doesn’t have the same meaning as “Quiet enjoyment” in the Residential Tenancies Act. The latter actually refers to landlord interference.
And you would have to establish, by a ruling, that the OC’s Special Rule is actually being breached.
It might be a bit of a process, but your option is to fill out the Owners Corporation Complaint Form and get it started:
That’s only a few minutes work. Or get your agent/landlord to do it. They might become more keen to help if your only other option is to break lease. The OC must respond to the complaint. Possibly by sending a formal Notice to Rectify Breach to the noise makers. Possibly by organizing a grievance meeting. Following the required 3 step process.
Don’t forget that you can break lease at any time:
@Fromthenorth said:
Thanks for this additional information.For this case, the OCs registered their rules. So is there a website where you can read an OC’s rules ?
Indeed there is.
In Victoria, OC rules must be registered and you can get a copy from landata:
https://www.landata.vic.gov.au/
The cost is currently $7:30.
@Fromthenorth said:
Thanks for this.So can OCs rules say dogs are not allowed ie. is this legal ?
Here is a VCAT case that you can find widely quoted in the media, by strata organizations and legal firms:
https://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VCAT/2016/1312.html
An OC has very limited authority to make rules that prohibit pets. But if they cause a nuisance it becomes a different matter.
All advice states that you should try approaching your neighbour first.
But if that fails, there are options under the Owners Corporations Act 2006 VIC.
Check your OC’s registered rules. But the Owners Corporations Act 2006 VIC Model Rules state:
- An owner or occupier of a lot, or a guest of an owner or occupier, must not unreasonably create any noise likely to interfere with the peaceful enjoyment of any other person entitled to use the common property.
- An owner or occupier of a lot must take all reasonable steps to ensure that guests of the owner or occupier do not behave in a manner likely to unreasonably interfere with the peaceful enjoyment of any other person entitled to use the common property.
Although a “strict” OC might be active in enforcing the OC Act and OC rules, any resident can independently start a three step process to resolve noise issues that can eventually see the matter taken to VCAT and an order obtained:
It can help if you maintain a log of the noise events and check with other residents to see if they are similarly affected.
In my experience as an OC chair, noise matters have not gone past the internal dispute resolution step which includes a grievance meeting. First the OC has issued breach notices. But when they have been ignored, formally bringing the parties together in a grievance meeting has been reasonably successful.
You have to check your Owners Corporation’s registered rules [for that specific strata scheme].
But by default the model OC rules allow pets in OCs in Victoria.
The default model rules however state:
(4) If the owners corporation has resolved that an animal is a danger or is causing a nuisance to the common property, it must give reasonable notice of this resolution to the owner or occupier who is keeping the animal.
(5) An owner or occupier of a lot who is keeping an animal that is the subject of a notice under subrule (4) must remove that animal.
(6) Subrules (4) and (5) do not apply to an animal that assists a person with an impairment or disability.
Indeed, in Asia and in many parts of continental Europe, hard floors in apartments are the norm. Along with children and pets.
And it works. I’ve lived there too. I even bought an apartment in continental Europe and became familiar with their equivalent of strata laws.
Mind you, most occupiers don’t wear hard shoes indoors in many of those countries. Shoes are removed at the door.
There is a family in my building in Australia that now have two kids both born and raised while living here. They are both of primary school age now and there’s a fair bit of running around and yelling. My building is of modern construction and doesn’t cope too well to be honest. But it met all the BCA (now NCC) requirements. It’s those that really need some serious improvements.
At least kids are mostly asleep in bed a night. For me, some noise during the day is understandable. So, while the kids are a bit annoying from time to time, they are nothing compared with party morons at 4am.
Between 11pm/midnight and 7am residents should really be considerate and keep it down.
@JimmyT said:
Those are the requirements for a landlord wanting access to their rented property. I don’t know if they are applicable to a strata scheme requiring access to a rented property.A problem in both VIC and NSW is that the OC has to give non-emergency entry notice to the occupier. And that’s the tenant in a 100% leased lot. In NSW the occupier has to agree or the OC must get a Tribunal order.
IME most of the time there’s reasonable co-operation once communications with the actual occupier (owner/tenant/other) has been established. Which might have to be via the owner or an agent.
But every time I have to arrange one of these multiple lot access events, and I have another one tomorrow morning, it’s usually a day or two’s work spread out over several weeks, with all the to-ing and fro-ing, trying to get everyone involved on the same page or at least close to it.
I agree that the behaviour of the committee member was unacceptable.
But as a committee chair, I know only too well how difficult it can be to arrange access to the lots for OC works. And even more so when it involves all or most of the lots on the same day.
We try to be as co-operative and as accommodating as we can. And arrange for someone to be present if lot doors need to be kept open. And to even lock doors and return keys afterwards etc.
@Lady Penelope said:
The correct procedure is to that you should have been given at least 2 days notice (working days) by the Committee of this work, and the specific hours during which you would be inconvenienced.
I’m curious where the 2 days notice comes from? It’s 7 days notice in Victoria but I couldn’t finds anything specific for NSW.
JimmyT said I wouldn’t dismiss this so readily based on the original post …
Perhaps the OP can clarify but I took the original post to mean the OC is forced to repeatedly take the owner to VCAT for not paying their fees. And not the other way around. (which means the OP has the thread title a bit wrong)
Unfortunately, as VCAT has stated many times, previous cases have been decided penalty wise so can’t be used in the current case.
I think what’s needed in the Victorian OC legislation is the possibility of a penalty for repeat offences.
Note that if VCAT orders are actually ignored, VCAT have been known to issue $10,000 fines for contempt of VCAT.
I can’t see how the Vexatious Proceedings Act 2014 (VIC) could help? That seems to me to be about litigants continually commencing legal action for vexatious reasons. The OP’s situation is the reverse – they are the ones that are forced to start the action.
AFAIK there’s no rule in the OC Act (VIC) that requires an owner to inform the OC that their lot is vacant. I can’t see that it affects OC building insurance although it probably affects lot contents insurance.
There is a new vacancy tax recently introduced into parts of Melbourne: https://www.sro.vic.gov.au/node/6094
As per the link in post #5, an OC in Victoria is very limited on how it can charge fees for levy debt recovery:
Note: An owners corporation cannot charge a lot owner any other fees or charges, such as an ‘administration fee’, for overdue owners corporation fees.
Strictly speaking, AFAIK, only VCAT can approves such costs. What one of my OCs in Victoria does is to approve a motion at each AGM for debt recovery costs to be charged against the lot. That means the strata manager is approved to actually do that and the in-debt lot owner would have to challenge the costs at VCAT. It does seem to work. The debt recovery costs would have to be reasonable.
At the next hearing you can certainly remind VCAT of all the previous appearances when the same OC has been involved each time.
But, provided they don’t ignore the VCAT orders, I suspect that each case is considered individually.
Have you ever asked VCAT for written reasons? Which might mean that VCAT decides to publish the case. A public record of ones poor behaviour would be something many would not want.