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As secretary of our owners' corporation, I ask the strata manager for the roll and they supply it – most recently by email last week.
This approach was slightly problematic for our former (now sacked) strata manager – but even with them I would eventually get it after pointing out that failure to provide the roll could be seen as interfering with the independent operation of our Executive Committee.
If you're not on the EC, and don't get on with those who are, then that's a separate problem – Whale has pointed out correct procedures.
Another less formal approach is to contact residents directly – in person or by letter box drop – and simply asking people. For tenants, they may be willing to pass on details of their managing agent, if not their landlord. This has the side benefit of helping you get to know individual residents, who may be pleased that someone's actually paying attention to them.
Re the photographs: Perhaps you should contact the NSW Privacy Commissioner on 02 80191600 (I'm assuming you're in this state) for some advice about rights to privacy – especially where you have a 'reasonable expectation' of privacy. I'd say you should be able to expect privacy at home – though I do know that the law does not limit the taking of photographs in public except in very few circumstances.
If you're a tenant, is there any hope of getting support from your landlord who, as unit owner, may be able to do something by complaining to the owners' corporation?
Billen Ben said:
5 The Secretary of the EC may elect to respond to no more than one email correspondence (other than complaints) regarding one issue per eveny 3 months from an individual unit holders / residents. Due to Secretarial workloads individual unit holders at the discretion of the EC Secretary can expect to receive a response to no more than 4 emails per year. The Secretary of the EC must record the email as incoming and/or outgoing mail / email in respective EC Meeting Minutes.
Many of the items in this list look familiar to people working in organisations which hold a lot of meetings.
However I’m astonished that anyone would choose to ration emails and the number of issues people can raise in any given period! Delayed responses are understandable if you’re a really busy volunteer…. To be honest, it looks to me like there must be some history of conflict for someone to draft such a bizarre limit to participation.
I don’t know about your owners’ corporation, but ours contracts a strata manager to deal with day to day inquiries about maintenance. If the issue is big, or involves funds over a certain limit, then the strata manager must consult our eC.
Our EC focusses on trying to set priorities and policy. We encourage any unit owner who wants to attend our EC meetings to do so. And we try to foster a friendly environment – something this clause 5 looks like it could undermine.
Muffin said:
Thanks Jimmy, so what we need to do is to have enough votes at the next AGM to vote on having an EC of 3 members instead of 5, otherwise we have to put up with the 3 people who are always voting against logic and reason. My next AGM is next Monday, wish me luck.
Hi Muffin – there is another solution (subject to the number of units in your strata plan) which is simply to find 2 other unit owners (or nominees) for your EC. I think it can be a good thing to have a bit of disagreement so you can actually work out democratic solutions from genuine debate. A bit harder sometimes, admittedly.
I'm always a bit concerned about why people choose to wipe out opposition in a committee, rather than just force a proper election. I look forward to the day our strata scheme has more nominees for EC than numbers to elect – that means a real election, where unit owners have to make choices rather than simply acquiesce to the will of the more outspoken unit owners (of which I am one).
Don't get me wrong, I do understand the frustration of dealing with people who may have a personal gripe against you – imagine if they put their energy into something constructive! As a reluctant EC secretary I prefer to try to educate owners and encourage their involvement, since in the long run this could mean I can stand down from the job when someone else is ready to fill it.
I suppose you could argue about the definition of 'negligence'. If the sensors on the garage door don't pick up the car when it's still in range, doesn't that mean they're not working? How well are those sensors maintained?
As for making ex-gratia payments – if this is something the EC can't do, then an EGM can. I can't see why the owners' corporation can't decide for itself whether it's fair for an owner to suffer loss due to damage caused by common property. It's not always a bad thing to set a precedent, particularly if it's an ethical one.
ilovebbg – while some people do have problems with Fair Trading and the CTTT, it's still worth giving a complaint through the proper channels a try. I'd think very carefully before going to one of the tabloid TV programs, since you may get more than you bargained for by involving that sort of so-called journalism.
You can be assured that your old strata manager is not the only one.
Here's another idea: Is your old strata manager a member of either the professional association Strata Community Australia (formerly ISTM)? That organisation has a code of ethics which it may be able to enforce.
The Real Estate Institute also has a strata division, but experience with the strata manager (and REI member) we sacked earlier this year tells me you may not get a sympathetic hearing… doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
We have plenty of first home owners and people of non-English speaking backgrounds in our unit complex… probably part of why our former strata manager chose to ignore most owners… but it shouldn't make any difference. However it IS hard to change and all you can do is persist with trying to sort it out. In the long run it's worth it.
I'm no expert, ilovebbg, but I'd say it's time to complain to Fair Trading or the Tribunal. There are sure to be others on this forum who will offer more specific advice.
Also, what's your new strata manager doing about this problem?
JimmyT said:
The problem is that technically the Strata Manager can only follow the instructions of the Owners Corporation and the Executive Committee.
This technical problem always strikes me as a good excuse for strata managers not to do their job properly.
It’s like lawyers taking instructions from their clients… Given that the strata manager or lawyer is supposed to be the professional who knows the legalities of the matter, they have a perfect cop-out – the ignorance of their client(s).
Our (now sacked) former strata manager used this sort of circular logic on our owners corporation to justify failures to act – even when issues were long-standing and and well known. It always made me question what we were actually paying for if all they had to do was follow instructions from people with little or no expertise (ie owners/EC).
It's one thing knowing the rules about what you can and can't do in the electricity meter room, but another to actually get anyone official (including Energy Australia) to truly care… unless you have that fire ozelle57 referred to.
We have 2 meter rooms (2 buildings) – both were filthy and one, in particular, was full of the sort of rubbish referred to above. There were also useful things, like spare balcony and roof tiles.
So we put up a notice informing residents about the date of a working bee to clean up the meter rooms. I knew this would not lead to a massive number of unexpected volunteers – but the point was to warn anyone who had stored their junk there that they must claim their stuff or we may throw it out.
In the long term, we hope to build a separate store room. But for now we at least have some clean spaces, easily accessible electricity meters and even a place to keep the spare light bulbs and fluro tubes. It works for us.
I can sympathise with Struggler's experience, but take a slightly different approach. Last year I rejoined our EC – having backed off a few years ago due to other commitments and a lack of desire to deal with one very destructive EC member. Didn't really have much choice but to rejoin the EC, because our former strata manager was doing anything other than managing our unit complex competently. Several owners realised we needed an injection of new EC members who could be more assertive to ensure things get done.
Having been snowed under before, I was determined not to carry the whole EC work load… and to ensure that owners realise that THEY are the strata/owners corporation.
Our EC agreed early on that part of our job was to help make our unit complex a pleasant place to live, where residents get on well, without living in each each others' pockets.
We started posting regular notices to residents on our noticeboards. These inform residents about the things they need to know, and purposely avoid the lecturing tone I've seen here (when I first moved in) and elsewhere. Notices regularly remind people to contact the strata manager or rental agent with maintenance requests, and invite residents to leave written suggestions and complaints in the secretary's letterbox.
I know the names of most people who live here, mainly because I routinely say hello and smile at other residents when I see them in the garage, etc. That's the easy bit.
I knew I'd be doing a lot of work as secretary, but treated that as an investment in the future value of our unit. That load will reduce over time once long neglected issues are sorted out. I've also told EC members there is a limit to how many years I'll be involved – so some of them are learning new skills to prepare for that future.
In less than a year, we've sacked the incompetent and rude strata manager (who had this place for nearly 30 years), sorted out several urgent repairs and conducted an audit of outstanding maintenance issues. There's still a lot of work to do, but you can already see the difference we've made to the place.
Sometimes it's a pain having to deal with strata stuff, but mostly it's rewarding to see the progress we're making. There are some issues which I choose to ignore in the interests of getting more important things done.
And, of course, the best ways to reduce the stress on EC members are to share around the responsibilities and to ensure you encourage other unit owners to participate and be informed… The more people you get involved, the less the workload and the more likely someone new will eventually join the committee.
I wish you luck Sallyk – and hope you have some patience and political skill.
Our unit complex (2 buildings, 24 units) finally changed strata managers earlier this year. I couldn't find any owners who were opposed to the idea of change, but it did take some work. And quite a few months.
Our (now former) strata management firm was a pretty well known local real estate agent whose appointed strata manager seemed to have no concept of customer service. The company's owner treated our formal written complaint with disdain. Once we gave notice – which we could only do after our EGM approved the change – it became evident that the last remaining staff member who was pleasant to us had been instructed to provide minimal service. But enough of that… I'm glad I never have to deal with them again.
Before we could appoint a new strata manager, our EC discussed what it was we actually wanted from someone in this role. Then I found several companies to provide quotes, inviting them to visit the premises to inspect and discuss what they were getting themselves into. The company that said 'we don't make site visits for a quote' effectively ruled themselves out of contention. We also asked each company to provide referees from the strata schemes they currently manage – with at least one being a similar age and/or size to ours. That process took a couple of months. We chose a company that purely deals in strata management (ie not real estate) and is a member of ISTM.
Since our old strata managers refused to reduce the 3 month notice period, I negotiated with the new strata manager to provide 2 months service for free (1 company offered 3 months, but was ruled out for other reasons).
Then, the EGM. It was the best attended General Meeting I've attended in our strata scheme. This was partly because we wrote to or emailed all owners – directly, not via the strata manager – letting them know what we were doing. Then, over the 2 days before the meeting I phoned, emailed, text messaged anyone who hadn't already told me they were attending.
The result: 18 out of 24 units represented at the EGM – either in person or by proxy – and a unanimous decision to change. The meeting took less than an hour, then we spent another hour having a little party – informally meeting the new strata manager and giving owners a chance to meet one another.
My main point in telling you all this is to say: it's worth doing, but just remember that it takes work. And, once you change, there will still be work to do to ensure the transition runs smoothly – especially if your old strata manager was not very good.
Cheers!
I agree with JimmyT that you cannot increase the number of EC members, because that number is set at the AGM.
However, there's nothing wrong with asking a potential EC member to attend and participate in your EC meetings, since all owners are entitled to attend them. When non-EC members turn up at our meetings, I'm always delighted that someone's taken an interest.
I suspect that the practice followed by our OC in setting numbers for the EC is pretty common: the number is however many people express an interest in joining. I fantasise that we might one day have an actual ELECTION… the reality is that one is highly unlikely to ever be needed.
If I recall correctly, there's not even a penalty for failing to produce a 10 year sinking fund plan.
Several years ago, I hassled our (now former) strata manager and EC about producing a sinking fund plan. It was only when I re-joined our EC late last year that I discovered the plan had not only been produced, but it bore no relationship to the maintenance needs of our building, was produced with no consultation and none of the owners – including EC members – knew anything about it.
Ours is now one of those unit complexes Mr Strata referred to as 'poor suckers' who have to raise a special levy or seek strata finance to do too much neglected maintenance.
As I understand it, we're meant to review our sinking fund plans every 5 years. If you want to make it a useful document, I'd say consult residents and do some site inspections. Then distribute the thing to all owners with some plain English explanation. Better still, discuss it at your AGM.
I know it sounds like I'm stating the obvious, but I've found most unit owners have limited understanding about the role of their OC. If they were better informed, then there may be less disagreements about what needs to be done and how much money you have to raise to do it.
JimmyT said:
Peter’s right, you can only correct minutes of a general meeting at another general meeting and for most strata blocks that’s the next AGM.
However, if you think the decisions of a meeting have been seriously misrepresented in the minutes, then you can have this noted at an Executive Committee meeting – it will then at least be on the record – and then, if need be, call an Extraordinary General Meeting, to correct them (and sack the person responsible, perhaps?).
We did just as Jimmy said: at our meeting, the Executive Committee noted the error in our AGM minutes, then we corrected them at an EGM a couple of months ago. We made a formal complaint (not just about the AGM minutes) to our then strata manager, who we later sacked at the EGM. Hopefully our new strata manager will actually follow up on what they’re asked to do.
One thing I’ve noticed in strata land is that many unit owners don’t actually bother to read their AGM minutes – and, in many cases, find them hard to understand.
In our complex failure to check the accuracy of AGM minutes over several years resulted in disagreements between the owners’ corporation and the then strata manager – who revelled in telling owners what’s technically their fault, while not lifting a finger to help solve the resulting problems.
Now we may have a new strata manager, but we also have some huge maintenance jobs to sort out. Had we been more proactive about the record keeping, we may not have ended up in our current position where we’ll either have to raise a special levy or get a loan for the strata scheme.
JimmyT said:
As long as you use the correct form (which you can download from the Essential Links page, if the strata managers don't send one out), you can nominate anyone you want to speak and vote on your behalf.
I think Jimmy makes an important point. Many people seem to think they can only appoint their strata manager as proxy – possibly because that's who you're encouraged to believe acts on your behalf.
In fact, in some cases it's illegal for the strata manager to act as proxy – ie when it affects their financial interests.
Recent experience of organising an EGM – to sack an incompetent strata manager – gave us a chance to build communication with unit owners and devise our own proxy form. It was the best attended general meeting we've had in years, if not ever.
Good luck with yours!