Forum Replies Created
-
Replies
-
The OC is obliged by law to charge everyone for work done on common property, the costs shared according to their unit entitlements. However, if you feel the work on your balcony in not necessary, and you are being unfairly impacted, you can apply to Fair Trading and NCAT for orders that the work not be done. The cost saving to you will be minimal, but you will be spared the disruption and loss of space and amenity. Have a look at section 232 and consider raising the issue through mediation at Fair Trading, in the first instance.
Regarding the legal fees, if you do go to NCAT and the OC loses, then the cost of their legal action against you must be raised from a special levy from which you must be excluded. That said, you have to take it to NCAT and you have to win.
I would forget the issue of the $3000 limit. It would cost you more to argue that in the Tribunal or a court than you would save.
Going back to your original post, you say the OC’s lawyer: “has advised us we will need to take on all liabilities for the balustrades which includes future owners. We have advised we will not accept the bylaw and its liabilities.”
This is standard practice when one owner wants something done differently with common property attached to their lot. If you are sure your balustrade is building code compliant, why not go with this?
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
… the offender is a committee member who are required to upheld the by-law, not breach it.
You have the option to apply to Fair Trading and NCAT for orders under section 238 (a) removing a person from a strata committee or (c) removing one or more of the officers of an owners corporation from office and from the strata committee.
So how offering a CP-by-law option (slow) is a reasonable option?
When you are challenging someone for not following correct procedure, it helps if you follow procedure yourself. I believe the correct procedure is to invite them to either apply for a CP by-law, stressing that approval is not guaranteed, or remove the air-con.
And is there any statutory obligation for the OC to invite a by-law application?
The OC has a statutory obligation to maintain common property. There is a reasonable expectation that they will do this in the most efficient way available. If you know of a quicker, cleaner, less disruptive and less costly way of doing this, by all means suggest it.
In fact, rather than trying to remove the committee member, I would seek mediation at Fair Trading with a view to taking your committee to NCAT under section 232(2) for failure to fulfil their statutory duties. Either way, the mandatory first step is mediation (which costs nothing) and that is often enough to get things moving but at least is the first step to getting orders at NCAT.
One other thing, reverse cycle air-con is considered a sustainability issue and as such special resolution approval would only require a simple majority at a general meeting.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Having just quoted the Act in reference to another question, I am happy to do so again:
108 Changes to common property(1) Procedure for authorising changes to common property An owners corporation or an owner of a lot in a strata scheme may add to the common property, alter the common property or erect a new structure on common property for the purpose of improving or enhancing the common property.
(2) Any such action may be taken by the owners corporation or owner only if a special resolution has first been passed by the owners corporation that specifically authorises the taking of the particular action proposed.
Note.If the special resolution is a sustainability infrastructure or accessibility infrastructure resolution fewer votes may be needed to pass it. See section 5(1)(b).Installing fibre to the building must be a change to common property, so a special resolution would be required before work commences.If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
I think the committee should ask the strata manager to send a letter to the owner asking them to, within 30 days, either submit an application for retrospective approval via a common property by-law, with an agreement to pay for the by-law and the cost of the meeting at which the application will be considered. Failing that, within the same time frame they should remove the air conditioning unit and repair any damage done.
The CP by-law must contain agreement to maintain the common property to which the air-con unit is attached. If the retrospective by-law is refused, the owner can take action at NCAT to try to have the decision overturned. They will get the chance to present evidence of prior approval at either the EGM or NCAT hearing, if there is one.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
I had a quick look at the act to see if it was all that strict. This is what the relevant section says:
108 Changes to common property(1) Procedure for authorising changes to common property An owners corporation or an owner of a lot in a strata scheme may add to the common property, alter the common property or erect a new structure on common property for the purpose of improving or enhancing the common property.
(2) Any such action may be taken by the owners corporation or owner only if a special resolution has first been passed by the owners corporation that specifically authorises the taking of the particular action proposed.
Note.If the special resolution is a sustainability infrastructure or accessibility infrastructure resolution fewer votes may be needed to pass it. See section 5(1)(b).I thought you might be able to push this through pre-emptively and get backdated approval at your next AGM – but then look at the wording: only if a special resolution has first been passed by the owners corporation that specifically authorises the … particular action.OK, my next thought is, what happens if you go ahead and do it? There are no StrataKops so you won’t end up in strata prison. If an owner complains, you might have to have that General Meeting or remove the installation. Someone could take you to NCAT for breaching strata law and try to have you removed from the committee or from your position for not acting in good faith.So you have to weight that up against the benefit of doing what you think is good for the building. What are the chances of that happening or succeeding?If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
If you are seriously worried, find out when the removalists are going to be there and hire a couple of security guards to watch them.
And it’s not naive to hope for the best in people – but it’s unwise to assume that other share your values.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
We can’t ask for a bond the way a landlord can for a tenant…
Many buildings have a removals damage bond that has to be paid by any parties moving in or out. But you would need a by-law and they sould like they would refuse to pay it anyway.
Is there anything we can do to encourage them to leave quietly with no damage, keys all handed over, belongings removed common storage and so on?
Unreasonable people don’t listen to reason. If they do damage property, then it’s criminal damage – nothing to do with strata even if they were staying put.
The stuff left in common property is covered by the Uncollected Goods Act 1995, not the Strata Schemes Management Act. The owners corporation can remove items left on common property, but they must follow specific procedures based on the goods’ value. Goods are categorized as perishable, low value (<$1,000), medium value ($1,000-$20,000), high value (>$20,000), personal documents/memorabilia, or motor vehicles. Low-value items require 14 days’ written notice before disposal, while medium-value items require 28 days. High-value items require an order from the NSW Civil and Administrative Tribunal (NCAT).
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
I ran this through an AI interface and this is what it said (and bear in mind that AI can get things wrong):
The new by-law prevails over the old one, even if the old one was never formally repealed. This is because the new by-law replaces the old one through a valid process, such as passing a special resolution and registering the change with the relevant authority. When a new by-law is introduced and properly registered, it becomes the operative rule, and the old one is considered superseded and inoperative.
How a new by-law takes precedence
Replacement: A new by-law effectively replaces an older one. If the new by-law is passed correctly, it makes the previous, inconsistent by-law invalid.
Registration: For a change to be valid, the new by-law, amendment, or repeal must be registered with the appropriate authority, such as the Land Titles Office.
Consolidation: The process of registering a new by-law often requires the creation of a consolidated set of all current by-laws. This consolidated version becomes the official and current set of rules for the strata scheme.
No explicit repeal needed: While a formal repeal is the clearest way to remove a by-law, it is not legally required. If a new by-law is created that contradicts an old one, the old by-law is automatically superseded. The registration of the new by-law serves to remove the old one from force.Important considerations
Proper procedure: For a new by-law to take precedence, it must have been created through the correct and legal process, which typically involves a special resolution at a general meeting.
Registration is key: The change is only officially in effect once it has been registered. Without this registration, the change is not legally valid and the old by-law would remain in force.That is all very impressive but the response quoted this passage from Kerin Benson lawyers which I think may be more reliable.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
How about an email telling owners that, because of unsavoury incidents and illegal behaviour in the past, the committee has discretely installed security cameras in common areas. They have been positioned so that they are not immediately obvious, to avoid intereference, but you can see them if you look hard in the right areas.
Then once the nasty neighbours have gone send another email saying “Sorry, we meant we were thinking of installing security cameras.”
Or find out where they are moving to and send them a letter from the committee wishing them all the very best at their new address.
Or install something like these cheap surveillance cameras
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
The offender claims that they had verbal permission from the previous strata manager
As legendary Hollywood producer Sam Goldwyn famously said, a verbal contract isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. Ask the committee to politely invite the offending owner to submit an application for approval, including the necessary by-laws, or remove the air con, or have it removed by a contractor at their expense. If the refuse then consider taking action at Fair Trading and NCAT under section 232(2) of the act for failure to fulfil a statutory duty.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
1 user thanked author for this post.
The committee can recommend refusal of the application on the agenda with an explanation of why that’s the case.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Why don’t you delay the AGM until after probate? A call to Fair Trading would sort out whether that’s a reasonable thing to do.
Good idea but no need to make that call. NSW strata law says you only have to have an AGM at least every financial year so theoretically you could have a two year gap between them (July in FY1, June in FY2).
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
Don’t forget our sponsors Stratabox. Their ad is on the right.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
1 user thanked author for this post.
I think something was lost in translation.
My bad. I was confused by the amount of additional detail.
Firstly, $3k seems awfully low for a ceiling on unauthorised legal bills. However, if you can show that what arrived as multiple low-ball bills should have been presented as one bill, then you have a case. What you would do with that case is another matter entirely and I have to say I’m at a loss except to suggest that you ask the OC to set a more realistic limit at your next AGM so as to avoid future shenanigans.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
I have Gigacom’s non-fibre service (microwave, I think, connected to internal copper) with wifi through the apartment. It’s fast, reliable and pretty good value.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.