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@bangles said:
They have advised ownership of the dog, and that if we don’t stop “bullying” them with continual letters from SM they will be taking the matter to NCAT.Just to be clear – I am pro-pet when it comes to strata. I am also pro by-laws, so this is what I think …
1. They consulted Solicitor during process of purchasing unit who provided them information that new rules would permit them to keep an animal. As such they took all reasonable steps to ensure they complied.
So they brought the dog into a scheme knowing it has a “no pets” by-law? Their beef is with their solicitor for giving them bad advice.
2. They keep the animal confined inside their unit and always carry the dog when transporting from unit, across CP to any public area.
Irrelevant. The by-law says “no pets” not “pets must be carried”.
3. They always take and use plastic bags to remove animal waste from CP grassed areas.
So they let their dog crap on common property? Nice!
4. To date there have been no complaints about barking.
See response to point 2.
5. Dog has been a family pet for many years and because there are no friends/family that can take the dog it would have to be put down which would be cruel.
They should have thought of that when they decided to buy an apartment in a scheme that they knew had a ‘no pets’ by-law.
After talking to several different SPs we have been told they will probably get a NCAT decision to allow them to keep the dog, but include something like a sunset clause advising they cant replace the dog if it dies (its not an old dog). Is this really the likely outcome? What’s the use of by-laws if this is true.
I don’t know if it is true, especially in a case where someone has knowingly decided to defy the by-laws before they moved in, then openly lied when they were challenged.
I don’t know how much difference this makes but I think your mistake was to send letters rather than official Notices To Comply followed by action to impose fines.
And that would be my next step. Much as I think pets in strata are generally a good thing, I respect the rights of people who don’t want to be around them and have no truck with people who decide the by-laws won’t apply to them.
The only appropriate way to respond to threats is to say “bring it on”. I would be sending the first Notice To Comply at the earliest opportunity.
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It’s called a staged development and it allows the developer to continue to build as planned without the approval of the owners corporation, if one has even been formed.
It also allows for the initial period to be extended.
It’s very complicated and an area where consulting an experienced strata lawyer over a dispute isn’t just a good idea, it’s a no-brainer.
Why? Have a look at this document from the solicitor general’s office
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@zorro said:
6. There is to be no change in the current external appearance of my lot because the same colour is used.
7. For these reasons no consent is required is required from the owners corporation to keep the walls of the same colour.There is a fairly substantial leap of logic between items 6 and 7. For instance, if this was the first opportunity the OC had to remedy a situation that was created some years ago, 7 does not follow from 6.
But, yes, take it to NCAT if you feel it merits that level of attention. I’m just glad that you aren’t going ahead with this based on interpretations based on a few grey areas of strata law.
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@zorro said:
The current colours actually precede the changing of the colour of the facade and the OC did not insist on uniformity 8 years ago when they repainted the facade. Surely the length of time must count as tacit acceptance of these colours.The passage of time does not make a bad decision a good one. There are plenty of examples in strata where bad decisions (or lack of any decisions) are rectified at the first reasonable opportunity.
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Your “legal advice” is highly selective and skewed towards what you want to do. Just as the sections you have quoted don’t mention paint, the other sections don’t specifically mention screen or shutters.
However if you are depending on section 109 you might want to read down to 5(c) which says “This section does not apply to the following work: work that changes the external appearance of a lot …”
I think that says everything. You might be better spending your money on a challenge to the OC ruling at NCAT than wasting it on paint that will have to be scrubbed off after a long and bitter dispute during which you manage to get most of your neighbours offside.
Maybe you should ask the person who gave you the legal advice if they will guarantee that you won’t be ordered by NCAT to restore the walls to their previous condition.
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If there is no stand-alone motion for the determination of the number of SC members then your AGMs are not being conducted according to the Act which requires that the decision be made after the nominations for election are accepted.
Regarding the elephant outside the room, Section 13 of Schedule 2 of the Act (below) says “an owner … is entitled to attend the meeting”.
If you can’t physically get into the room, then you have not been allowed to attend. And while this would not be enough to overturn decisions made at any single meeting, you can show a pattern of behaviour that has systematically excluded non committee members from attending.
So, what you do is put up a motion to the next strata committee meeting that they find suitable premises that allow the meeting to be held and for non-members to sit in reasonable comfort.
Being expected to bring a chair isn’t such a big deal but not having enough room to accommodate everyone who wants to go is. There are plenty of rentable office spaces or club rooms around, if there is no adequate space in your building.
13 Non-member owner may attendAn owner or, if the owner of a lot is a corporation, any company nominee of that corporation is entitled to attend a meeting but is not entitled to address the meeting unless authorised to do so by resolution of the strata committee.
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@zorro said:
The only references I can find to things that might change the external appearance of the building are all structural and not cosmetic.Section 106 (3) (b) refers to changes that “detract from the appearance of any property in the strata scheme.”
Admittedly, this is in a section about the the OC deciding not to effect repairs but it does show that the appearance of the building is a consideration under strata law. There may be others but that’s the one with which I am most familiar.
The appearance of the building is referred to twice in the model by-laws, specifically, No 12 (below). That said, maybe your by-laws are different. have you checked?
Until you do, I would not, for once, follow Lady P’s advice to “just do it” as, if there is a legitimate restriction, you may find yourself hit with another bill to “unpaint” the walls.
12 Appearance of lot(1) The owner or occupier of a lot must not, without the prior written approval of the owners corporation, maintain within the lot anything visible from outside the lot that, viewed from outside the lot, is not in keeping with the rest of the building.If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
The two questions – about surplus of proxies and excessive new by-laws – aren’t really related.
I don’t think you can pass a by-law about what happens to excess proxies (I assume you men when one owner has filled their allowance of proxies and more people want to pass them on). The official proxy form already has a second choice option.
I also don’t think we should be encouraging a perpetuation of the “donkey votes” – giving proxies to the chair or secretary without even knowing who they are or what they think about issues.
If people aren’t engaged enough in their community to make an effort to find out how people who will be attending the meeting intend to vote, then they shouldn’t be encouraged to offer “blind” votes to anyone.
As for the 25 pages of by-laws, I suspect your strata manager is taking the mandatory review of by-laws seriously. Just be careful that he doesn’t wrap them all up in vote vote, allowing some hidden nasties to slip through.
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@strats all said:
Sounds like it may be a little bit out of my depth at the moment so I think I will just consult a lawyer to help with the new by-laws.A good place to start is to compare your current by-laws with the new model by-laws in Schedule 3 of the strata regulations.
Having said that, consulting an experienced strata lawyer (not just your local solicitor) will set you on the right road and pay dividends in the future.
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@hammer66 said:
The chair did have a proxy for the absent nominee. However, other attendees holding proxies were not given the opportunity to vote. Should they have been?
Absolutely – and now you need to move fairly quickly.
If they were denied the opportunity to vote their proxies and those proxies would have made a difference, then you can have the election nullified under Section 24 of the Act (below).
The reason I say you need to move quickly is that Section 25 of the Act deals with denial of the right to vote and it puts a 28 day limit on the claim.
A smart lawyer would say that this is a Section 25 matter and therefore a time limit is valid. The easiest way to get round that is to make your claim ASAP.
If what you say is correct, your owners have been duped by the chairman who accepted his own proxies and no one else’s.
That’s a clear case of denial of the right to vote – even if it was just by rushing the process – and the election should be overturned and run again.
It’s also a clear motivation for getting rid of your chairman at the first opportunity.
24 Order invalidating resolution of owners corporation(1) The Tribunal may, on application by an owner or first mortgagee of a lot in a strata scheme, make an order invalidating any resolution of, or election held by, the persons present at a meeting of the owners corporation if the Tribunal considers that the provisions of this Act or the regulations have not been complied with in relation to the meeting.
(3) The Tribunal may refuse to make an order under this section only if it considers:
(a) that the failure to comply with the provisions of this Act or the regulations, or of the Strata Schemes Development Act 2015, did not adversely affect any person, and
(b) that compliance with the provisions would not have resulted in a failure to pass the resolution or affected the result of the election.
[NB: Section 2 relates directly to Strata Renewal and is not relevant in this issue]If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
@SirLunchalot said:
Maybe you could limit the number of chars in the Title text box.I am not a computer programmer. I rely on the common sense of contributors to limit themselves.
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The committee can’t say no without holding a meeting – and as you are a member you should have been informed of the meeting and given the opportunity to state your case.
Sounds like this is one of those ad hoc committees of two or three where the strata manager, chair and secretary just make decisions – totally against the regulations.
Submit your by-law and a letter requesting a decision as soon as possible to the secretary and the strata manager. They will inevitably tell you that you’ll need to wait until the next AGM, but if that’s too far away, inform them that you will be seeking orders under section 232 (and will do so anyway if it’s rejected at the meeting).
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The Chairman should only have included the votes of the absent member if he had a valid proxy form from the absent member.
There are other issues that might be in play, such as co-owners can’t self-nominate and candidates can’t be nominated by people who are standing for election themselves.
However, even if you find enough flaws in the voting process to have the election overturned, the investor group might get their act together the next time round.
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It’s a rant, mate, which is probably the most effective way of turning people off from whatever your grievance is (and I am still not sure).
We don’t set out to cure all the ills in housing here and have never claimed to do so. Your passionate plea for whatever it is that you want might be better directed at your local MP, the Tenants Union, Pru Goward (the Minister in charge) or anyone who is in a position to actually do something.
You are bashing your head off the wrong brick wall. And, yes, it sounds like anger – take it somewhere it will make a difference.
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