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This seems to belong to another thread. Any ideas which one?
Please don’t start a brand new thread when you are commenting or responding – nobody can follow.
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According to various fact sheets on the Tenants Union website the landlord is required to provide the accommodation in a reasonable state of cleanliness and repair and you are required to maintain the cleanliness and leave the unit in the same condition as you found it.
With that in mind, it sounds to me like your rental agent is an ignorant bully (one of the very few, hey?) who needs a quick lesson on the workings of the Residential Tenancies Act.
I would write them a letter saying that the state of the oven is not your concern as you don’t use it and the landlord (or their agent) thought it was OK to hand it over in that condition.
However, if they want it cleaned you will allow reasonable access for a cleaner paid by them to do it.
In the meantime, do you think the rent increase is excessive? If so, there are also factsheets at the above website on how to challenge that, too.
And on the subject of ovens, if you do decide on a professional clean, preferably paid for by the landlord, go the whole hog and get the ‘Oven Fairy’ in. Seriously, check THIS WEBSITE out – they’re not cheap but your oven or barbecue will be as good as new when they’re done.
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Best of luck with that. Mention us here at Flat Chat when you talk to your lawyer. And please let us know how you go.
Jimmy
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Depending on the age of the scheme, there are two kinds of defects that a surveyor should be looking for. Non-structural defects have a time limit of two years for warranty claims while the there is a six-year clock for structural defects. What you need is a comprehensive survey by an experienced strata surveyor although if you have passed the two year limit already, it might be worth restricting them to structural issues.
I would recommend someone like our good friends Integrated who will at least give you an initial assessment and good advice on how to proceed. There are other companies who offer a similar service but I can’t vouch for them personally
As a low-rise scheme, you are covered by Home Warranty Insurance but it sounds like you are still being unduly influenced by the developers who may be just running down the clock until the six years time limit on claims has passed and they are not liable for any claims that may come back on them.
Your owners corporation has a duty to look after common property and it seems like you have problems already which may be cosmetic but could just as easily be serious structural problems.
I would be talking to the Executive Committee right now about getting a comprehensive report done by a fully qualified surveyor. If they dig their heels in, I would pay the $78 and run them through the CTTT on a Section 62 complaint, requesting orders that they get the survey done.
Failure to look after the building properly could also justify seeking an order under section 162, appointing a strata manager to take over the running of the scheme from the owners. Trust me, since strata managers legally have to do everything bu the book – and that costs serious money – that is not a road you want to go down unless the value of your property is being threatened.
Short-term investors in new schemes are notorious for wanting to spend nothing on the building and then sell up just before the cracks, sometimes literally, start to appear. Your neighbours have a right to be told that the long-term value of their properties could be under threat and and they need to act now to find out exactly what the problems are, if any.
The cost of a survey will be nothing compared to the nightmare of fixing building defects when the warranty period has run out.
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Picking up on SMO’s high school physics concept – which makes perfect sense, except that it requires someone standing there with a stopwatch and then everyone else believing them – a fairly simple security camera with a time code on its display would not only provide the measurement of the speed but the evidence of the offence.
If you also have a by-law in place, it would certainly give your committee the grounds on which to issue a Notice To Comply (or whatever the equivalent is in your state).
That’s assuming, of course, that the speeder wasn’t on the EC.
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@SMO said:
Mr. Courtney is pretty good but if asked how does he reconcile the difference between what he preaches at strata seminars and CTTT outcomes he has got nothing.
Will anyone from CTTT be on the panel?Can you be more specific? Please tell us (briefly) what Michael said at a seminar (or what you think he said) and what he did that was different. I’m happy to put the question to him at the Q&A and report back here.
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I can understand why the Adjudicator can’t or won’t order a specific remedy because it is possible that the remedy they offer won’t work.
However, the order to to do what is required to stop the the transmission of noise means the effect is what is ordered, not the means by which it’s done.
Have a look at this recent case at the CTTT where the hard floor owner had thought they’d get away with just putting down a couple of rugs … they ended up with $1000 fine for ignoring the CTTT order.
My advice would be to talk to the strata lawyer first, then do the acoustic testing if they think that’s appropriate, then take it from there.
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The acoustic engineer may be right about the BCAs but they are not the only factor in a correct decision being made. The objective test is whether or not the noise transmitted by these tiles disturbs the peaceful enjoyment of your lot. I can’t believe in this day and age that we are still getting these clowns on the CTTT but is seems the last of the fruitloops are still there. There a re plenty of previous case under strata law where the actual noise and not some technical test by an acoustic engineer has been accepted by adjudicators.
My advice to you would be to talk to an experienced strata lawyer right now. Our sponsors Makinson d’Apice are very experienced in this field, as are Grace Lawyers, David Bannerman, David le Page and others. It might cost you a couple of thousand dollars but they will get you the best result possible and will cut through all the BS at the CTTT and force them to apply the law. The Strata Schemes management Act says nothing about building standard – only about the peaceful enjoyment of lots.
And the order that you originally got is actually spot on – they are being told to cut down the noise and that means the only criterion of whether or not this has been complied with is whether or not you are still disturbed by it.
If your neighbours complain about having to lay down wall-to-walll carpet, remind them of their own words: “bad luck – that’s apartments for you!”
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@kaindub said:
Mediators are not legal experts and are not required to know the law … The mediators skill and role is to get parties talking and agreeing.I agree … to a point. It is probably more important to have someone who can get people talking rather that an expert on strata law.
However, there is a huge lack of knowledge about strata law in the community, underpinned by myths, bush-lawyerism, ignorance and bias.
It really helps if the mediator can say, “Look, I know that’s how you feel but this is what the law says and your case has little chance of success if you proceed with that line of argument.”
As long as the mediator can present facts without appearing to take sides, then an informed and able mediator is so much better than someone whose only skill is knowing when to pass the talking stick.
But, as Kaindub says, ultimately the mediator’s job is to get people talking – they are not there to judge or adjudicate.
NB: One of Fair Trading’s top mediators, Michael Courtney, will be on the panel for Flat Chat Live on November 2. Click HERE for more details.
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The Owners Corporation has an absolute and unlimited duty to maintain and repair common property (see below). As an owner, you can take an action at Consumer Affairs Victoria (CAV) and, if necessary, Victorian Civil Administration Tribunal (VCAT) to force them to repair what I am pretty sure would be common property.
Have a look at THIS web page. It outlines the strata complaint procedure in Victoria. Although it is mostly written from the point of view of caomplaints against owners, it also covers complaints by ownrs.
The main points you need to remember are that if you make a complaint to the owners Corporation, they have to respond in writing (even if their decision is to do nothing).
If the dispute is resolved , they should have an internal disputes procedure that you can follow (and CAV recommends that you do so)
However, owners taking a complaint against their Owners Corp don’t have to follow the internal procedure and can apply directly to the CAV for mediation (although, again, it’s recommended that you should at least have tried the internal process).
Finally, if you aren’t satisfied with the response, you can apply to VCAT for an order compelling the Owners Corp to fulfill its duties. It’s a bit of a process but it’s worth it in the end.
I would lay a pound to a penny that your Owners Corp hasn’t done anything about getting defects fixed and now it wants individual owners to pick up the tab for their laziness and incompetence.
This is what the Owners Corporation Act says:
46. Owners corporation to repair and maintain
common property
An owners corporation must repair and
maintain—
(a) the common property; and
(b) the chattels, fixtures, fittings and services
related to the common property or its
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I agree and the sentence I thought I’d written about applying a similar formula to walls somehow slipped off the page.
The rest, including the way the room is furnished, comes under behaviour and that’s not something you can easily legislate.
However, you can provide information that says if the resident has low-rated slab and wall insulation, they may need to moderate their behaviour and, for instance, not hang a flat screen TV with powerful in-built speakers on a wall adjoining two apartments.
It’s not perfect but you have to start somewhere and right now there is absolutely nothing to tell prospective buyers and renters how well insulated (or otherwise) their new home is.
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the doors (and their closers) are common property. Even if you wanted to fix them you wouldn’t be allowed to (technically). But and adjustment to the door loser so the that last inch or two is gentle and the application of rubber seal round the sills might fdo the trick.
Otherwise make a joint approach to your EC about getting something done about both doors.
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Agree with Boronia, ex-Cathedra and Kangaroo. If, however, your residents haven’t switched to digital because the signal isn’t strong enough, then a different set of concerns come into play.
As previously said, unlike analog, where a degraded signal means a degraded reception, digital is pretty much either on or off so it is feasible that a building might survive reasonably well on analog but get nothing on digital.
Which brings us to the question: does the EC have to upgrade its aerial and cabling to receive digital? And do they have to provide set-top boxes for each unit?
Just a couple of weeks ago there was an Appeals Court ruling that the Owners Corporations duty to maintain and repair common property extends only to restoring the basic functionality of the CP.
In other words, you don’t have to raise the standards of your infrastrucuture to the latest levels, whatever they may be (unless there is a question of safety). So that means you don’t have to provide set-top boxes.
However, if your current system is incapable of receiving digital signals – for whatever reason – you have to restore its functionality and that means doing what is required to make it receive TV signals again. That said, you don’t have to provide the technology to turn those signals into TV pictures so, no, you don’t need to buy set-top boxes.
There is a very helpful website about the change to digital and you could do a lot worse than start HERE and follow the prompts until you find the answer you are looking for.
On a slightly different note, it would be worth getting a local retailer of TVs and DVD recorders to come in and address interested owners about what their options are. For instance, someone who records a lot of TV for “time shifting” purposes is going to find it very frustrating if they have to set their set-top box to be on the correct channel every time for shows that are recorded regularly.
With that in mind a digital hard drive recorder/tuner is the perfect piece of kit for embracing the new digital age.
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With you on all of that, Whale, but I think what Martin may be reaching for is some sort of objective test or rating that can be applied to buildings so that people know where they stand before they start ripping up carpets and laying down timber.
Is it beyond the abilities of our engineers and builders to come up with a formula based on the thickness of the slab and the composition of the concrete when it was poured that gives it a star rating such as:
- 1 star: You can only ever have carpet and underlay, no exceptions
- 2 stars: You could put down a hard floor but only with the very highest grade of insulation (and a commitment to moderate behaviour).
- 3 stars: Hard floors are likely to need less stringent rules on insulation and behaviour but highest grade materials are still recommended
This could be written into the specs for apartments when sold (or done retrospectively with core sampling) so everybody knew from day one what they could and couldn’t do in their apartments.
It would also make it easier to force the “my home is my castle” morons to rip up inadequate flooring and replace it with something that doesn’t drive their neighbours mad.
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