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This is a tried and tested method for proving a noise issue. The problem only arises when you are recording conversations without the person’s knowledge and then try to use that as evidence in a court case or in some other way that impacts on them (like putting it on YouTube or Facebook).
I only suggested sending them a note alerting them to the fact that their noise would be recorded as a way of sending them a warning without it being an obvious threat.
As the examples on here have shown, you can do it and use it as evidence and if you’ve sent them a note telling them that you plan to record their thumps rather than their chats, they really have no comeback now or when it goes to court.
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Without their permission or without their knowledge? That’s why I suggested sending them a note. I know you can’t record a telephone conversation without permission either given or implied, but the recording of footsteps, thumps and bumps? I think we’re on safe ground.
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OK, do you have a “smart phone” with a voice recording facility. If not, go HERE and look at your options to by a simple digital recorder.
Set the recorder up with the correct time and date and then send your neighbour a note that says something like “I am obliged to inform you that we are now recording noise disturbance from your apartment with a view to providing evidence in pursuit of a Noise Abatement Order from the District Court. The recordings will be date and time-stamped.”
Now, I don’t know if you actually are obliged to do that but it may have the desired effect of gatting them to pull their heads in.
But a threat isn’t a threat if you aren’t prepared to follow through with it, so be prepared to start recording when the noise starts. It would help if you were to say quietly what time of the morning it is and then let the recording run till the noise stops.
If this doesn’t work, then go to your District Court and apply for a Noise Abatement Order. You’ll find more information about that here.
Just one word of caution: this could exacerbate the problem – it may get worse before it gets better – but if you do get the order and they continue to make the noise, they are in breach of a court order and that is a criminal rather than a civil matter.
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I think you are confusing proxy votes from owners at general meetings and proxy votes from other EC members at an executive committee meeting. In an EC, it’s one member, one vote – no owner proxies or unit entitlement poll votes. However, you can have proxy representation of an absent member of the EC, but only provided the EC agrees to it.
Some EC members try to use the proxy votes that got them elected to the EC to wield more power at the EC – this is not allowed. Like I said, EC votes are one member, one vote unless an absent member gets another member or another person to represent them … and that have to be approved by the EC..
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From my reading of the Owners Corporation Act, two lot stratas are exempt from the legal requirement to insure common property which means it’s hard to compel your neighbour to do anything in regard to insurance.
I am pretty sure the people at CHU will have encountered something like this before so why not call them, tell them you want to gibve them your business and ask their advice. They are the expersta, after all.
By the way, your current insurers sound so lackadaisical I wonder if you are actually insured at all.
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As long as they are still owners, they can stay on the EC but your problem will be if they don’t tune up for meetings (as it sounds like they won’t) and have to give their proxy votes to someone else.
The EC has to approve proxies before they can vote and that means there has to be a quorum at the start of every meeting and that means all four of the remaining members have to be there to form the quorum (the non-attending members’ can’t be part of the quorum because their proxies haven’t been approved yet).
This sounds like a very unsatisfactory arrangement and you should try to persuade at least one of them to resign so you can co-opt another member on to the EC to give you some wriggle room.
You will need to find new office-bearers from the remaining members although opne person can take on more than one role. Failing that,your strata manager can take on any or all of those roles – but it will cost you.
As a last resort, if none of the three departing members want to resign, you could hold a Extraordinary General Meeting to declare the three seats vacant and elect new members.
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Just so everyone knows who to contact, wherever you are, if you are in NSW and there is a noise issue in your building and the Executive Committee won’t take action, you can do so yourself, whether you are and owner or a tenant, by going directly to Fair Trading (Tel. 13 32 20) to get this problem sorted.
You can download an application form for mediation (mandatory before you can take any further action) HERE. If mediation fails, you can then apply for an adjudication at the CTTT. You can download the form from HERE.
If that fails you can go to your district court and apply for a Noise Abatement Order (see above for NSW).
In Victoria, go here for strata disputes and here for general noise restrictions.
For strata in Queensland it’s a little complicated: go here then click on “by-laws” in the ‘I want to find out about …’ box.
For local government noise restrictions, here are the relevant links for Brisbane and the Gold Coast.
For noise issues in South Australia, go HERE and for general strata disputes go HERE.
If you have a tenancy problem, go HERE for advice from your local Tenants Union or equivalent service. There is also a page of links to various state bodies HERE.
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@Juan Durection said:
But on a more serious note, you accuse me of “deliberately polarising the discussion just for the hell of it???”
I referred to “people” deliberately polarising the the discussion … If I had meant you I would have said you.
Good example of quoting out of context and verballing though.
What a waste of time and space this is. No more!
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Jun Durection said:There are obviously two clear sides to the argument about balcony washing … the Flat Chat Forum shouldn’t just be exclusive to one and shout the other down.
First of all, I think you’ll find the washing on balconies viewpoints are fairly evenly divided here. Even if they aren’t, people don’t get “shouted down”. You get your fair share of space and if someone disagrees that’s part of the debate that you claim to want. I disagree with you but if I wanted to “shout you down”, your posts would never see the light of day.Please don’t misunderstand me, quote me out of context or verbal me guys.If you don’t want to be misunderstood, it is incumbent on you to express yourself more clearly or at least correct the perceived misconception when it occurs. I have been writing professionally for much too long to admit in public but I still assume that if someone misunderstands what I’ve written, it’s my fault, not theirs.How have you been quoted out of context? This IS the context. Being quoted out of context is usually an excuse used by politicians who have been caught saying something they shouldn’t have said when they thought no one who disagreed with them was listening (viz Allan Jones, Mitt Romney et al).As for “verballing” – my understanding of that is that it’s taking a few words you have said and distorting the intended meaning. None of that has happened here.The world needs a contrarian or two.A “contrarian”, in my view, is summed up be this definition from the Urban Dictionary: “A person who disagrees with the mainstream or accepted view because he believes it makes him look good and feeds his ego, not because his argument is well thought-out or rational.”There are other definitions and maybe you didn’t mean that one but if that IS you, please take it elsewhere. We have enough to do dealing with genuinely held contrary opinions without having people deliberately polarising the discussion, just for the hell of it.
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Easy, Juan. Someone disagrees with you – that’s all. I don’t see how you’ve been verballed or quoted out of context – the context is pretty clear, you don’t think people should have to look at other people’s washing.
Fair enough – you are not Robinson Crusoe in that regard, or in thinking that it lowers the tone of a building. You also think people should comply with their by-laws. Again, a lot of people (including me) would agree.
But Apartmentalize obviously disagrees that it lowers the tone of the building. I take a different view which is that maybe it does but the trade off in what we are doing to the environment is worth it.
And I asked for the actual wording of the by-law because, at the end of the day, that’s all that matters in a strata dispute. If there’s a by-law that cdinoz is breaching, then I’d say that reflects the view of the majority of owners so he or she should live with it or try to change it.
But if this is just some uppity person on the EC getting the strata manager to do their dirty work and imposing rules that don’t exist while snooping on a neighbour, I’d say tell them to get stuffed.
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Yeah, I’d like to read the actual wording of thta strata scheme’s by-laws to see on what grounds they are being prosecuted (or is it persecuted?). Methinks if there was a valid case to answer, they’d have received an official Notice To Comply on the statutory form by now.
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Just a couple of points. I met with the people from StrataMatch a couple of weeks ago and they seemed very professional, friendly and pleasant. The doubts I had were over which strata management companies they were offering as potential clients. The word I’m getting from the industry is the StrataMatch is great for strata management companies looking to expand their client base but, because of their fee structure, are less attractive to some of the more established companies.
However, if they can find you the best strata managers at the best price and, importantly, the right level of service for you, then it’s a good thing. Just make sure whatever contract you sign with whatever strata manager you choose, it has all the performance guarantees and exit options you need.
And finally, I can’t leave this issue without mentioning our principal Sponsors StrataChoice (see ad at top of page). They took over our building’s strata management at a very difficult time and have stuck with us through thick and very, very thin. They wouldn’t be sponsors of this website if I didn’t regard them highly.
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@jrfb said:.
My question: Should we have first of all asked them to remove the whole of the concrete since the work was illegal?
They bought the property not knowing of this issue and we weren’t aware of it until the dampness became a problem.It’s a tricky one because they bought the thing in good faith but then they would or should have been aware that there were conditions attached to the exclusive use permission. I’d be as accommodating as possible with this one because your main issues is to prevent the damp. Make it easy for them to do the right thing and install drainage – and consider making a contribution on the grounds that there is no way the Owners Corp could not have realised the yard was being concreted without permission.
But if they want to get shirty about it, you could invoke the lack of the required permission plus a probable breach of council planning laws as an indication that if they want to play hard-ball, you could force them to dig it up at their own expense and start again.
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Whale’s example, below, shows what happens when a lackadaisical Owners Corporation meets and Under-motivated strata manager. Everyone trundles along in blissful ignorance until some tells them they HAVE to do something.
Mortica’s comments show the deep flaw in my argument that “she’ll be right” ECs in large strata plans should be replaced by professional Strata Managers until such times as they get their act together. If the Strata Manager is a no-hoper and crook, then everybody’s stuffed.
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