[Jimmy-T]

I think it’s been fairly well established that unapproved changes to the common property are subject to potential removal or remediation unless the owner has reached an agreement with the Owners Corp via a by-law.

The reason for this is, partly, that there has to be ongoing responsibility for the changes which can be passed on to the next owner without a legal battle over who is responsible for what.

In a case where an owner has made changes to the common property that the owners corp has not approved, the OC can ask the owners to either agree to a by-law (which they should pay for)  or pay for the reinstatement of the common property. Or the OC can seek orders requiring them to pay for the reinstatement and the costs of the action.  In other words, the OC is far from powerless in all this.

The law on this is enshrined in Section 108 of the Act. I believe that having been given the choice between legitimising their work on common property or having it removed, no Tribunal is likely to side with the lot owner.

The lot owner is protected in this in that the agreement can’t be rescinded later without their approval.

Your strata manager is making up strata law as they go, probably thinking (hoping) that it’s no big deal and it’s less hassle for everyone if they just record it but do nothing with regard to Section 108.

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[Jimmy-T]

melmike wrote:

I’m ASSUMING they cannot just use their larger percentage to vote for a benefit for themselves.

Why would you assume that? Decisions made by committees and at general meetings can be challenged at NCAT, or even in court if they are seen to disadvantage a minority of owners.  But there’s no law specifically against it.

melmike wrote:

But there’s certainly nothing about pets being allowed on common property.

The key is if there’s nothing saying they can’t. Your fall-back is the part of strata law that deals with dogs that have permission but turn out to be a nuisance.  Oh, and make sure your lawyer is a strata expert otherwise they may be no more clued-up on this stuff than you are.

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[Jimmy-T]

The laws surrounding strata voting are fairly loose, provided there is no intention to deliberately mislead, so I wouldn’t worry about the validity of previous votes.

And I think the AGM could cover both committee and general meeting votes, if it’s happening soon, but the committee could and should tidy this up if the AGM is some time away.

I suspect the post-Covid rules were brought in to cover schemes that hadn’t already gone to electronic votes but might want to

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[Jimmy-T]

1. Where in Australia are you?
2. Who are the “them” that you are trying to call.
3. Why do you think you don’t have the authority to renew the insurance?  Pass a motion at committee meeting empowering your chair or secretary to seek three quotes or contact a strata insurance broker.

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[Jimmy-T]

If you don’t have the stomach for a pretty straightforward NCAT hearing, you aren’t going to last long in a stink-war of attrition.  Tell the other owners that they are opening themselves up to long and expensive legal challenges if they DON’T pass the by-law as is. They will have to pay to defend the building against perfectly reasonable complaints about smoke.  That should get their attention.

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[Jimmy-T]

melmike wrote:

Are we within our rights to keep insisting they find an alternate solution and can we deny the dog free access to the pool area?

What does it say in the by-laws?  Many buildings have a by-law that says pets are not allowed to wander on common property unattended.  If you don’t have one, you might have trouble getting one if they have 25 per cent of the vote.

As for “You knew we had a dog” the only possible answer is “Yes, but we didn’t know you were selfish, entitled sh**s.”

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[Jimmy-T]

This is a clear case of cigarette smoke being a nuisance. Gather your evidence (as per previous posts on this topic – search for “smoking” in the Forum search box), seek mediation at Fair Trading and when that doesn’t work – note “when” not “if” – take it to NCAT.

You have a right to breath clean air and “smoke from smoking” is defined as a “nuisance” in the same part of the Act that says strata residents must not create a nuisance for other residents.

It will take a while, judging by other posts, but you will get there.

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[Jimmy-T]

The following just landed in Linkedin from a Victorian owner Kerry Ould:

Pretty sad that u have to do a quick trip to Bali to sell ur holiday house that u have had for 10 years because the piece of crap apartment u bought in Melb is going to send u bascially broke this year because all Govs have failed consumers.

Big shout out to the VBA for not picking up on [builder/developer] years ago we did write to u to warn u along with others in their builds could u be anymore pathetic just a pack of bullies coming after us and we are in contact with all the other builds that are drowning in building orders this has now taken 4 years of my life . Change is needed

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[Jimmy-T]

Austman wrote:

If this is strata “secrecy” then it’s a widespread national issue and it has been for a long time.  I can’t quite see the national crisis.

Your sarcasm is noted and, dare I say it, misplaced.  If you want to play a numbers game, there are considerably fewer (about 15 percent) strata schemes in Victoria and all the other states put together than there are in NSW and Queensland combined.

And if you are saying the strata processes in Tasmania, WA and SA are superior to NSW and Queensland, you are clearly using a different set of metrics from mine

But there’s a fundamental question that’s more important: is it better to keep owners in the dark about what their strata committees are discussing?

That’s the old way.  The “up-to-date” way is to let owners know what’s going on at every step of the process and if they choose not to engage then they can’t complain if things go wrong.

If a group of owners get together periodically, don’t tell the other owners what they’re discussing, don’t allow anyone to observe their meetings and selectively report (if at all) on the discussions they had, that is pretty much a definition of secrecy.

And, with all due respect, your experience of the schemes where you have owned and served on committees is specific – it’s limited to the schemes you have owned in.  Have you ever owned in a building where the managers and committee members colluded to rip off the other owners?

Have you ever owned in a building where the original committee hid defects from the other owners and potential purchasers so they could sell before the problems were found?

No? Does that mean they don’t exist or or such behaviour never occurs.  Or is it only NSW that has these problems?

The last time NSW strata owners were asked how many of their schemes had defects, the response was off the scale.

But in Victoria? Nothing.  Nada.  No figures.  Does this mean there are no problems in Victorian strata schemes? Or does it just mean that most owners don’t know, those who do know don’t want to report it so they can sell out befoe the value of their property is harmed, and the media has no idea how serious it is, or don’t care.

That’s exactly how things were in NSW 15 years ago and that’s why I say Victorian strata law is behind the times.

It must be great for those blocks where there are few problems – but less fanatastic that we won’t know about the others where there are serious problems until it’s too late.

Austman wrote:

Requiring the formality as per NSW would mean, in one of my OCs in VIC, on a busy week, the issuing of 4 or 5 notices of committee meetings because, on a busy week a new issue comes up nearly each day.   How would the committee be able to deal with that requirement?

Yeah, great argument but it doesn’t wash. Most issues that need an instant response have been anticipated by delegation to the strata or building manager, who reports to the next committee meeting.

My 20-year-old block of 130-plus units has a lot of “end-of-life” issues with infrastructure, as well as all the other stuff about short-term rentals and residents renovating etc etc. They get by with one committee meeting a month.  So where is this notion that they would need five meetings a week come from?

It’s just not real.  No building in NSW that I know of works like that because they don’t need to.  That’s the reality.

Again, may I say, this is not a “strata of origin” issue.  But that’s why Victoria is behind the times – because every time someone says you could be doing better there, we get the same false equivalence arguments about how Victorian strata is just hunky-dory compared to NSW.

Maybe your own schemes are, Austman, but reports are rolling in that others are in trouble. And just wait until the dodgy developers driven out by the NSW building commissioner set up shop in Victoria.

Of course, it will take years for the stories to get out because the luckless owners will be kept in the dark.  Good luck with that.

 

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[Jimmy-T]

86_strata wrote:

Hey Jimmy,  Is it really behind the times though? … What happens in the apartment is no business of the OC.

I think allowing individual owners to do too much within their units that does affect other lots, even indirectly, is a proven recipe for dissent and disaster.

The NSW system is far from perfect.  But there has to be a process where work that compromises the integrity of the structure is monitored and responsibility clearly assigned.

Tiles in the bathroom are a case in point. If someone’s renovation affects the waterproofing of an adjoining wall, the ensuing battle of who pays to fix it when the damp starts to spread is a huge waste of time, money and emotional energy.

All of that can be avoided if there is a simple process in place where, when common property is involved, the owner tells the strata committee what their plans are, and the tradies involved have to be licensed and insured.

It’s all about the individual’s responsibility to the community and Victorian strata seems to have gone in a different direction and tried to treat apartments as if they were free-standing houses.  They’re not and never can be, and I believe that trying to hang on to an irrelevant model of home ownership is “behind the times”.

 

 

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[Jimmy-T]

TrulEConcerned wrote:

… She suggested one lot with 2 owners each be nominated and run for election (so that lot would have 2 members on the committee) …

This may not have been the case when this attempt at committee stacking occurred, but Section 31 of the Act currently says:

(4) Only one co-owner (including a company nominee of a co-owner) of the same lot may be a member of a strata committee at the same time, except as provided by subsection (5).

(5)  A person who is an owner of more than one lot in the strata scheme may nominate one person for election as a member of the strata committee for each lot for which the person is an owner.

TrulEConcerned wrote:

[The committee secretary] rewrote history by withdrawing the motion from the agenda (something I doubt is legal once an agenda is distributed and the motion about to be voted on).

For the record, this was perfectly legal and probably not as unusual as you might think. Section 15 of Schedule 2 of the Act says: “The chairperson at a meeting may rule a motion out of order if the chairperson considers that the motion, if carried, would conflict with this Act or the by-laws of the strata scheme or would otherwise be unlawful or unenforceable.”

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[Jimmy-T]

gazelle wrote:

We don’t appear to have any site specific by-laws. They all look pretty standard except for this one: “That the decision of the officers in the council would be executed only if unanimous, if they were not unanimous, and Extraordinary General Meeting would be held to resolve the matter“.

That by-law isn’t only redundant, it’s invalid. Schedule 2, Section 9 of the Act says this:

Voting at meetings

A motion put to a meeting is to be decided according to a majority of the number of the votes cast for and against the motion by the members present (other than any tenant member) …

You can’t have a by-law that supersedes the law, and the unanimity by-law gives a veto to any member of the committee.

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[Jimmy-T]

spmanager wrote:

Remember … 25% of owners can block the committee from resolving any issue.

Good point but has anybody ever heard of this happening … apart from in this case?

 

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[Jimmy-T]

gazelle wrote:

I presume that we should engage a strata lawyer for this.

You presume right, when it comes to additional by-laws.  There are two top-class strata lawyers advertising at the top of this page.  Call them up and ask for quotes.

Getting this done through lawyers should reassure your neighbours that it’s necessary and that what you end up with will stand the test of time (and recalcitrant owners).

However, the size of the scheme probably won’t affect the fee.  By-laws apply equally to everyone so the numbers don’t make much difference.

Otherwise, your existing by-laws will have been automatically updated  under Schedule 2 of the strata Regulations, so your basic by-laws are up-to-date, regardless.

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[Jimmy-T]

This has been a glaring hole in strata management contracts for decades and the strata managers’ professional body in its various iterations, previously fought tooth and nail to protect its members immunity from liability.

This included threatening to sue owners corps for copyright infringement if they tried to use the rest of their standard contracts with perfectly reasonable amendments.

However, the NSW SCA (the strata managers professional body) last year was accepted into the Professional Standards Scheme. This comes with certain self-regulatory commitments, including a review of their  standard contract.

And we hear that Fair Trading is also looking at fixing that at the next strata law changes.

So the answer is, if your strata manager refuses to change the liability clauses in their contract, find one who will.  They’re out there – just keep looking.

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