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Hi esb,
As Jimmy often writes….those posing queries should seek legal advice from experts in strata law because opinions offered in this forum are just views of members who are not legally qualified.
I can add nothing more to what I wrote and suggest you heed Jimmy’s comments on telling the strata of its obligations. You could also look up cases at NCAT, VCAT etc which focused on similar common property disputes.
Hi ESB,
In addition to the suggestion by Jimmy-T, you could go to your local council and ask to speak to someone about the history of the strata plan.
I know, in the case of the City of Sydney Council, folk often call or pony up to the customer service desk asking such queries. The council staff will unearth the original strata plan and can explain to you, whilst holding a copy of the original strata plan, what is common and what is not common property.
The council should also have copies of any by law stipulating the ownership/responsibility/maintenance of the “covering” OR any by law changing the ownership/responsibility/maintenance of the “covering”.
Good day larchibold,
I am truly sorry for the saga that envelopes you.
Three things come to my mind:
- Jimmy is spot on when he mentions this forum is not a source of legal advice. It is a collection of views from strata property owners and residents, made in good faith but not by qualified strata practitioners;
- Jimmy is 100% correct in stating your need for a lawyer experienced in strata matters. I can tell you that wise advice. Many years ago I engaged what I call a “general purpose” solicitor with zilch specialisation in strata matters – someone I have used for many years for other transactions – and the other side’s solicitor rode rings around him. He was uninformed about strata law and in the fullness of time that absence of experience in that field was clear to all;
- An appeal is good advice. Given the long standing nature of your matter, the case should be run by a lawyer; and
- If as you claim the OC/BC is planning to take you to court for the costs they incurred when winning the case, at first blush it seems to me that they do not have an experienced strata lawyer working for them either because under the Strata Act – section 104 – they can ask NCAT for the costs to be paid by you. There is no need for them to go to the expense and effort of seeking the costs in a court. In fact I don’t know if a court can even rule on a NCAT matter that was not put to NCAT.
Glad to help.
(1) On the matter of insurance, decide what period of time you believe the strata manager and/or committee members were engaged in shenanigans that cost the owners including you money or resulted in reduced insurance cover.
Let’s say the period is 01JAN2019 until 01JUL2022.
You could write to the strata manager – under s. 182 of the SSMA – to provide you with copies of ALL correspondence (by email or otherwise) that was exchanged in the period 01JAN2019 to 01JUL2022 between and amongst the following parties:
(a) The strata manager: (b) committee members; (c) prior insurers the strata used; (d) current insurers the strata uses; and (e) any intermediary such as a broker or a representative used by those listed in (a) through (d) inclusive.
The agent must give you access to the records whether by physical inspection by you in his office or he may choose to make the records available online or via email. He may charge the $34 fee for the first 30 mins of physical inspection (and more if your inspection is longer), but often managers prefer to email owners at no fee or no more than $34 just not to have owners in their offices. Especially when simple matters like copies of emails are sought.
The history of email communications should make you better informed about what’s going on.
(2) Given the inattention by the OC and from your position, a less than satisfactory response from NCAT, you should consider asking NCAT to appoint a Compulsory Stata Managing agent under s. 237 of the SSMA.
This means NCAT turfs out the current strata manager and committee members from their roles and appoints another strata manager to manage the property with no involvement from any owner including those committee members now sacked. The upside is that a new broom is installed at the scheme which often attends to all the outstanding issues, in your case there are plenty to keep the new manager busy. The downside is that the new manager will not need to consult anyone about who he hires, how much the work will cost the OC and what work he will arrange to repair and maintain. Oh and the costs to manage the scheme will rise, possibly by a lot. But then again, matters will be repaired and properly maintained, so surely better than what you’re enduring currently.
To get such an order in your favour you must prove in your application that:
- the management of the strata scheme by the strata manager and committee members is not functioning satisfactorily (things are not being done or being done to the detriment of the owners); or
- the management of the strata scheme by the strata manager and committee members have ignored an order(s) imposed by NCAT; or
- the OC has failed to attend to a duty it is obliged to respond to under the SSMA eg repair and maintain common property (s. 106).
You should summarise your opinion is that the OC are dysfunctional which is proven by their continued dereliction of duty to repair and maintain common property as well as its history of ignoring an NCAT order.
Emphasise just how many YEARS you’ve been waiting for the manager and committee to attend to fixing serious matters which are only getting worse and worse given the inactivity of the strata manager and committee members.
Sorry for the late reply:
1. Fair Trading is right. A committee member cannot charge for answering an owner’s question or ignore communication of an urgent nature that impacts on the building, which is the committee’s responsibility.
What committee members often do is ignore emails or phone calls. Or take their time replying. No laws against that I understand.
2. In my experience, often – but not always – Strata Managers’ behaviour is dictated by committees. The committee may tell an agent to ignore or not act on emails. Thie may be because the committee is spiteful or just don’t want to do any work. Managers want to keep their jobs so will do as their paymaster tells them.
That said, your job is to show that you notified the OC via the manager about something and nothing was done. I suggest you copy any email you send to a manager also to a committee member, that way both are informed and if nothing is done, your hand is strengthened when it comes to filing a complaint with NCAT. After all, both the manager and the committee knew of a problem and chose to ignore it making them very possibly liable for any consequential damage or loss you suffer as a result from their lethargy.
3. When you get the quotes and apply to NCAT ensure your “renewal of proceedings” paperwork, which of course will cost an application fee, is limited to WORK ORDERS. You cannot renew proceedings for a non WORK ORDER matter. Get quotes also for ALL the additional damage you have seen eg outside the front door, ceiling carpet etc
4. In your renewal paperwork you must mention how the water problem which has been ignored by the OC and manager has got worse.
Describe the new situation: the stains, smell and leaks near your front door; the inattention to the concrete slab that necessitated carpet replacement and expert advice that was ignored.
The above indicate continued dereliction of duty by the committee to repair and maintain common property under s. 106 of the SSMA.Throw in that you believe the committee is acting in bad faith and hence breaching s. 260, SSMA
http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ssma2015242/s260.html
As these issues are intimately related to the NCAT order ignored by the OC, I think it reasonable that you add them to the renewal application where you’ll seek orders for the repair and replacement of whatever is damaged.
If the issues were unrelated, you may be asked by NCAT to go first to Strata Mediation where you and the OC are to discuss the issues with a view to resolving them, under the guidance of an impartial mediator.
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Here is some information on Strata Mediation:
Go to the Fair Trading website and lodge online a request for Strata Mediation on this issue. The cost to you is zero but often NCAT will require a customer to have attempted to mediate on the matter before going to NCAT.
Go to
At the above link scroll to MEDIATION
and look for COMPLETE THE APPLICATION
click on that link, fill in the form and Fair Trading will contact you in about 10 days (who knows, maybe sooner)
At Mediation the other side may not attend mediation or they may not agree to anything or they may agree to fixing the problems and then not follow through. These are all possibilities. Once mediation is over (if they don’t attend then it’s over as soon as it starts), the Mediator will email you a letter confirming what took place at mediation. That letter is all you need to go to NCAT.
For more information on this matter call Fair Trading on 13 32 20
I hope the above helps. Appologies for not replying sooner.
To add to Jimmy’s comments regarding costs that will be incurred by the OC in the event that you do take them to NCAT – and great that you’re keeping logs and videos as this is the type of evidence NCAT will demand – if the committee and strata agent remain stubborn, point out to the them that when you win at NCAT, all costs incurred by the committee and strata manager will be debited to the OC but you are to be excluded from contributing to these costs. That is, the costs incurred must be covered by raising a special levy on all owners, but not you, see s. 104 SSMA.
Drant, you mention the stove can be bought from Bunnings for $450.
If you do go to QCAT ensure your claim is COMPLETE and include:
Cost of stove say $450 (attach evidence of two options in case the $450 model is unavailable)
Cost to deliver & take away the old stove (attach evidence)
Cost to install (electrician for which you must get a quote)
If you don’t get a quotes and attach proof to your claim, you will not be putting your bet foot forward.
@The Hood
You wrote about a Code of Conduct and
An agent must have a knowledge and understanding of the Act and the regulations under the Act, and such other laws relevant to the category of licence or certificate of registration held (including, laws relating to residential tenancy, fair trading, competition and consumer protection, anti-discrimination and privacy) as may be necessary to enable the agent to exercise his or her functions as agent lawfully.
@Jimmy-T
You too mentioned the Code of Conduct
My question is: what happens to an agent if he is found not to exercise his functions lawfully?
Case in point: I submitted motions to a strata manager for a General Meeting. He confirmed they would be listed at the meeting. In the event he listed them instead for a SC meeting. Naturally the motions (critical of the self enriching behaviour of the SC) were voted down at the SC meeting. Shunting the motions to a SC meeting instead of a GM is very sly, as we know, a SC meeting’s outcomes have little if any weight when compared to a GM.
I complained to NSW FT.
They started asking him questions.
Out of the blue yesterday I received an email from the agent, addressed to all owners, announcing he is terminating his management agreement with the strata, giving the required notice.
When I lodged my complaint, NSW FT indicated they will not tell me what “compliance” action if any they would take/are taking against the agent. Nor in time will they tell me of his response. And only if the behaviour is found to be “very serious” would there be mention on the NSW FT’s website.
Is there any way I can find out what NSW FT told him or fined him?
If not, then he can merrily put his name forward to manage other stratas with those that sign him up ignorant of his bad behaviour in my case. Not to mention every other strata he currently manages has no way of knowing of NSW FT’s investigation, its outcomes and why he terminated the contract with my strata just as NSW FT’s invetigation got underway.
As I understand, Landlord insurance covers landlord’s contents including damage being the result of an “escape of liquid”. It does not cover the renter’s contents.
Cover for damage to a tenant’s contents including by “escape of liquid” is covered through renters insurance. If it is taken out by the renter.
You should call your insurer to confirm.
Also, you Google renters insurance with the name of an insurer so you can read if understanding above is correct.
If the above is correct then your tenants lose little by applying to the Tribunal (only the small application fee). Their claim of lawyer saying you’re liable may just be them seeking to further rattle your cage. Did you receive a letter from the lawyer stating on what grounds you are liable?
@larchibold
I am very sorry to hear of your situation.
Two things come to mind:
(1) You mention the “Strata Manager”. What exactly did you apply for and to whom?
(2) As for the lethargy, ill will or sheer incompetence of the Owners’ Corporation (“OC”), may I suggest you get say 2 quotes for the complete repair of what needs to be done (to get your place to the good and dry state it was before the damage) and then apply to NCAT.
Before applying to NCAT, contact them on
Give them the file number of the case that you or your solicitor took to NCAT and mention the OC has ignored the orders.
Ask NCAT if you can “renew the proceedings” – if so, this requires you fill in a simple 3 page form. A “renewal” is often used if one side fails to abide by orders and the other side, you, want to enforce the orders.
If a renewal, for whatever reason is not possible, NCAT may ask you to apply with a brand new application.
But DO NOT APPLY with the intention of getting yet another order for the OC to handle the repairs. Instead ask NCAT to order the OC pay for the repairs YOU will organise, given history shows the OC has failed to do its duty under s. 106 of the Strata Schemes Management Act and failed to abide by NCAT’s orders.
To prove the sum you want NCAT to instruct the OC to pay you (to then pay the contractor you find), attach the quote to the NCAT application. Providing NCAT with at least 2 quotes will be even better.
Assuming this dispute will end in a legal venue, you need to line up all your ducks in a row.
I suggest you get the ball rolling and write a polite note to the agent referencing the completed job performed, when only a quote (presumably free of charge or for a nominal fee) was to be obtained, and ask the agent “on whose authority was the contractor/tradesman engaged to perform the completed work”? You could, as I do, throw in “please reply within 48 hours or without further correspondence I will refer this matter to NSW Fair Trading”.
Only when I include the above last line do agents ever reply in a timely manner, knowing that I am not pussy footing around.
@Jimmy
I wrote “forward” because in my recent experience – unless there is a lot of wading to do (by the agent in order to seek hunt down the sought after information) – agents prefer to email or direct owners to the portal rather than have them turn up at their office to inspect records
Of course there is nothing stopping an agent emailing information to owners on condition of paying the “inspection fee”.
You wrote
Why is this industry protected?
In the context of strata schemes, I meant the real estate agents are protected from facing the full force of what is considered “consumer protection” legislation as say KMART faces with its customers.
You wrote
I was thinking a lot of strata manager issues could be solved by having the strata roll visible to owners on strata hub
Forget the strata hub. The strata roll is not listed there; as far as I know only the Chair, Secretary and agent (if there is one) details are listed. Maybe one day the roll will be listed there, who knows?
But as for today, you as an owner are allowed to view the strata roll (which I assume lists names, phone numbers and email addresses). After all, the strata roll forms part of the strata’s records (under the control of the Owners’ Corp be it with the strata committee or the strata agent) which every owner has the legal right to inspect.
Of course the agent may be a so-and-so and not provide the data you want quickly and simply and instead may insist on you paying the (no less than) $34 inspection access fee, but even so, you should get all the details you’re after.
Here’s an idea: tell your agent you’re interested in contacting all owners about (mention some important matter) and for that you would like their names and email addresses to be sent to you (in no longer than say 3 days’ time).
The agent cannot deny you that. Oh, if he or a committee member says he cannot due to “privacy” concerns, tell him to check with NSW Fair Trading (13 32 20). One committee I deal with pulled that stunt (denying me an email address) and quickly behaved themselves when NSW Fair Trading set them straight.
Speaking as a former committee member, I would have thought that the key to any complaint is evidence and not the name of someone alleging illegal parking.
Why don’t you photograph the car(s) when parked illegally and in the photo(s) capture say a newspaper’s masthead (which includes the date)?
1. To me the glaring omission in this “reform” is that no change seems to have been made as to how NSW Fair Trading enforces compliance with the Act.
That is to say, before this “reform”, a complaint by Joe Public against a real estate agent (including a strata agent) required a complainant to:
A. Write to NSW FT by formally listing allegations of say misconduct or dishonesty, which are breaches of the Act under which the agent is licensed; and
B. Provide evidence to back the allegations.
NSW FT would consider the matter and decide if compliance action is needed, for instance:
(i) Directing the agent (strictly speaking, licensee in charge) to further education; or
(ii) Sending the licensee in charge a warning letter; or
(iii) Fining the licensee in charge; or
(iv) Taking more serious steps.
The complainant would at no time be informed:
* If NSW FT took compliance action at all against the licensee and
* What if anything, the licensee said, wrote or inferred in reply to NSW FT.
Oh, and the agent could conceal the matter entirely from the OC, if he so chose.
The “reform” keeps all the above in place.
The above is not what I consider remotely “consumer protection”. It’s “industry protection”.