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Felix – it’s probably worth taking into consideration the extent to which an Owners Corporation (O/C) need not maintain its Common Property (under Sect 62(3) of the Strata Schemes Management Act) and to then apply that to its deliberations concerning the maintenance and repairs to the magnesite floor covering.
In consideration of the above, it’s my opinion that your O/C needs undertake repairs to the extent that the magnesite flooring no longer affects the safety of the building or that of the occupants of the Lots, and does not detract from the appearance of those Lots.
If the application of that criteria means that your O/C decides to only repair the damaged sections that your post refers to (and that would be my approach), then it also needs to consider that whilst magnesite was used primarily as a floor leveling compound (e.g. prior to laying tiles or parquetry), it was also used as a sound insulating compound; where it was quite effective.
So whatever your O/C decides to use as a replacement for the magnesite, that material too needs to have sound insulation properties – particularly as it’s adjacent to sliding doors with metal runners and the potential for impact at both extremities whenever occupants are careless.
Perhaps check for compatible materials (which I think would need to be both waterproof and acrylic) with someone like Regupol.
Thanks Roo – I agree that the deceased owner can’t sign anything
Seriously though, if I was sure of my ground I wouldn’t be seeking comments, but maybe I should approach this from a different angle.
My take is that the trustee of the estate (probably a lawyer) can’t vote, my problematic future owner can’t vote if she’s still a beneficiary of the estate, and IF probate has been granted, as a new owner she can’t vote unless the Owners Corporation receives a Notice under S118 of the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (1996) prior to the commencement of the General Meeting
As I said that’s my “take”, but what do you all think?
chak – obviously we don’t know the details, but the fact that your Executive Committee (E/C) was as you’ve stated “self elected” probably means that from a legal perspective you really don’t have one, but as they’ve been performing the role to some extent, probably want to continue, and may attend the EGM, that changes matters somewhat in my opinion.
I mean, it’s your Plan so you know the personalities, but if you have the numbers to appoint an A/Chairman in the manner that I outlined earlier, and in circumstances where the self-elected Chairman and other E/C Members are in attendance, then fine – put the Strata Manager’s suggested Motion on the Agenda before the one to then elect a new E/C.
Again, it’s all about the numbers, because as Jimmy T advised (post 15) you need ≥75% of all those in attendance and entitled to vote, both personally and by proxy, to be in favour in order for that “removal” Motion to pass.
(I’ll have to learn how to type faster, as kiwipaul’s post just came up ahead of mine; complementary though.)
A few posts (including mine) have mentioned that Strata Managers should all be appointed as Agents or Distributors for Strata Insurers and be subject to the training and professional scrutiny that follows.
Yes please…. and I’d extend that to the individuals working with Owners Corporations (O/C) and not just their Licensees, as in that way those individuals would be legally required to do what (most) Brokers do now, by declaring the amount of their commission ($) instead of burying it as a % in a Schedule to their Agency Agreement, and by providing a service to O/Cs as opposed to merely pointing them in the direction of the Insurer who asks the least questions, pays the highest commission, and hosts the best conferences (for CPD).
Those of you who have been around this forum for a while would be aware that I’ve been pushing this particular barrow for years, ever since our Plan decided to self-manage and I found that our long-time Insurer wouldn’t reduce our premium to account for the fact that they no longer paid a 23% commission to a Strata Manager, and then that a detached lot within our Plan had never been covered by our Policies; so much for our previous / long-term Strata Managers’ knowledge.
I reiterate that I’m speaking to my dealings those previous / long-term Strata Managers, and that I’m not tarring all with the one brush.
One final point ….. previous posts have made observations about how well served O/C’s are by the current crop of Strata Insurers, and if those refer to the degree of competition, on the basis of my experiences I must disagree.
When consideration is given to the numbers of Strata Insurers who won’t deal directly with self-managed Plans, who only (or prefer to) deal with Plans in their home State/Territory and price others accordingly, and who are subsidiaries of other providers, then the numbers (in/serving NSW) reduce to four (4).
I’m not sure that O/Cs need the proliferation that’s recently occurred with comprehensive motor vehicle insurers, but if more competition in the Strata Insurance industry had the same impacts on service delivery and premiums, then I again say… yes please.
PS – I just edited this post to remove a phrase that may have identified our previous or a similarly setup Strata Management Organisation; that was not my intention – Whale 10am
In the circumstances you describe it is permissible for the persons personally present and entitled to vote at a General Meeting to, in the absence of the Chairman and Secretary, elect one of their number to act in those roles.
Here’s your reference in the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (1996):
Sch2, Cl:15 (2) In the chairperson’s absence from any such meeting, the persons present at that meeting and entitled to vote on motions submitted at that meeting may elect one of their number to preside at that meeting and the person so elected is, while so presiding, taken to be the chairperson of the owners corporation.
Once elected the A/Chairman should ask for all proxies to be received, and then announce the names of all persons who are entitled to vote, and only then call the General Meeting to order, and bring the Motion to elect the Executive Committee (E/C) forward so that it’s resolved first.
Once that Motion is resolved, with the A/Chairman abstaining, the then elected Members of the E/C should assume their respective roles, including those of Chairman (who may be the same person earlier placed in the acting role) and Secretary.
Then the Motion to confirm the Minutes of the previous General Meeting should be considered (again out of Agenda order if necessary), and if it’s resolved that an item has been incorrectly recorded then the amended wording should be recorded in the Minutes of the current General Meeting, together with a statement that the remainder of the previous Meeting Minutes were confirmed (as accurate).
Maaate …. finally I have the opportunity to follow one of your posts instead of the other way around.
Down here in Australia, the variety of bamboo that I believe your post refers to is classified as a noxious weed, and as such the Owner of the property where it’s growing is required to continuously control it in way that inhibits its growth, both above and below ground.
If the property Owner does not do that, then in NSW the Owners Corporation could advise the local Council, who would issue a Weed Control Order on the neighbour.
Once that’s been acted upon, any remaining roots that extend across the boundary into the Strata Plan’s property could be severed, and as they’re shallow rhizomes in the case of bamboo and therefore likely to be within the stratum of an exclusive use area, removal costs would be the Lot Owner’s responsibility.
As you know our Plan is self-managed, and my way of invoicing such costs is a “no surprises” approach by first discussing the matter with my Owners, then by (the O/C) arranging and paying for the works, and then adding the costs of those as a separate line item on the Lot Owner/s next Levy Contributions Invoice.
In that way Owners almost always pay the invoiced total (as they should), and if they do not, then I treat the balance owing as a debt against the Lot which carries forward to subsequent Contributions Invoices together with the permitted interest (10%) until fully paid.
I know that strictly speaking the costs of such works should be invoiced separately to the Lot Owner/s concerned, either by the Contractor or by the O/C on a miscellaneous invoice, but my approach works and the contractor (who I may wish to use again) gets paid first as opposed to waiting for a disinclined Owner to do so.
I agree that the procedures should be the same in QLD and other States/Territories, but I wouldn’t bank on it!
All occupants need to be shown on the Tenancy Agreement, and whilst there’s no pressing need to notify your Rental Agent and have them update the details to include a newborn, you should put that on your to-do list.
Parental responsibilities aside, all the parties you mention have Statutory responsibilities with regard to health and safety. The proposed policy covering locking devices on some windows and the existing one for swimming pools are examples of those.
That’s your problem I’m afraid. Hear from you later.
ccgirl – under the provisions of the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (1996) Owners wishing to make changes to the Common Property are required to first seek the written consent of their Owners Corporation (O/C), who if it agrees will include conditions, usually including one making that Owner and all subsequent Owners of the Lot concerned responsible for all on-going maintenance/repairs and replacements of the changed item/s.
The converse position, perhaps unreasonably held, is that if no consent is sought prior to an Owner making a change to the Common Property, then by default the O/C remains responsible for the changed item/s, just as it would be if it had itself made those changes.
Television and Pay-TV cabling is a little more complicated.
It is usual (although not exclusively so) for that cabling and the in-line signal amplifiers (often called the “backbone) to run from the antenna head or node, through the roof cavity or the space between the ceiling of one Lot and the floor of the Lot above, and for the individual feeder cables connected to it (often called “droppers”) to pass down inside or up through Lots’ vertical walls or floor to connect to the wall plate/s.
So taking likely scenarios into consideration where the cabling and wall plate have been changed without the O/C’s consent:
• the “backbone” is the O/C’s responsibility no matter what;
• IF the “dropper” is within a perimeter / outside wall of the Lot then it too is the O/C’s responsibility;
• IF the “dropper” is within an internal / dividing wall of your Lot then it’s your responsibility.
I don’t understand why tiles and carpets would need to be removed, but floor tiles originally fitted when your building was first occupied are the O/C’s responsibility, those fitted since, and carpets are your responsibility.
There are a few other scenarios such as if your O/C has a Special By-Law in place covering the responsibility for service cabling such as for television, pay-tv, data, and telephone, but without further investigation / information from you I can’t comment further. Perhaps post again when matters become more official.
….and in NSW the correct way to do that is via the Office of Fair Trading’s mediation process (refer to the link on my last post).
Scotty’s advice about ensuring that your payment of Levy Contributions goes against that invoice and not towards the total (i.e.including the miscellaneous invoice) is also very relevant.
Your Owners Corporation has a legal obligation to “properly maintain the common property”, but that’s probably a discussion to be had via another post when you’re past the current issues.
Good luck!
oasis69 – that’s a crying shame and possibly yet another example of how poorly strata disputes are managed through the OFT / CTTT’s processes.
It’s a pity that you didn’t have the energy to take the matter to adjudication, or moreso that you didn’t take earlier advice to go down the Noise Abatement Order / Local Court path as “the best answer probably lies outside the CTTT/Fair Trading/by-laws nexus” (Jimmy T).
Take strength from that biblical reference about meek (and considerate) people one day benefiting from their approach to matters such as those that you’ve just experienced. You may not inherit the earth, but as least you can now reside in peace (and quiet).
In addition……..here’s the relevant section of the NSW Strata Schemes Management Act (1996) that speaks to voting rights, including my emphasis (bold):
Schedule 2, Cl 10(8)
Voting rights may not be exercised if contributions not paid.
A vote at a general meeting (other than a vote on a motion requiring a unanimous resolution) by an owner of a lot or a person with a priority vote in respect of the lot does not count unless payment has been made before the meeting of all contributions levied on the owner, and any other amounts recoverable from the owner, in relation to the lot that are owing at the date of the notice for the meeting.
It all depends on an interpretation of often poorly worded legislation, but unlike Scotty, mine is that as the alleged damage was to the common property and you’re an owner, non-payment of the O/C’s invoice would indeed preclude you from voting at a General Meeting, except for those Motions that require a unanimous resolution.
I’d also suggest that you check for any relevant Special By-Laws that your Plan my have registered.
Whether or not my interpretation is correct, it sounds to me like you’re on firm ground with regard to proving your “innocence”, and your next step should be to quickly advise the Secretary of your Executive Committee (E/C) and your Strata Manager that you again wish to discuss the matter in an effort to avoid the involvement of the CTTT.
Try to avoid the CTTT that many posts describe a the proverbial “chocolate wheel” in terms of the decisions made, but if your E/C and/or Strata Manager doesn’t respond positively or at all within a timeframe that’s acceptable to you (say 7 days), then you need to seek assistance with more formal mediation by completing and lodging THIS form, and of course by taking all relevant evidence to support your claims.
Ken – In NSW and so far as I’m aware elsewhere, your Owners Corporation (O/C) certainly can decide to self-manage; ours has done that for 6 years. This needs to be done by way of a resolution passed by a majority vote of those Owners present, both in person and by proxy, at a General Meeting (e.g. an AGM); the Executive Committee cannot make that decision.
Be careful about the timing though, as most Agency Agreements that appoint Strata Managers require the O/C to give six (6) months written notice of termination.
That’s period of notice is not such a bad thing, as it gives the O/C time to locate, select, and appoint people to assist it to undertake some functions such as accounting, and time for the current Strata Manager to collate all your Plan’s records in preparation for a hand-over of those to the O/C.
Your O/C could self-manage with the assistance of a business that provides the basic “tools” and some telephone support – I’ve provided links to two of those HERE and HERE.
Your O/C could also contact a company who provides various levels of assistance, such as a basic record keeping, levy collection, and invoice payment style Agreement that leaves day-to-day activities with the E/C. One of those businesses is a sponsor of this Forum and there’s a link to them at the top of this page, or HERE if you wish.
One final word of caution…there is the potential for the roles of your Resident Manager (classified as a Caretaker under NSW Legislation) to overlap with the roles of whoever your O/C chooses to provide support. That’s why your O/C needs to have a formal agreement with its Caretaker, and in NSW that’s outlined in Clauses 40A, 40B, and 40C of the Strata Schemes Management Act (1996).
Nelson – I know that I said my last post would be my final one on this subject for the time being, but your post was so informative that I just couldn’t help myself, so I have just a few observations / comments.
I like your idea that a Strata Manager who acts as an Agent for Insurer/s should hold the same accreditation as a Broker providing that same service, and in my opinion that should apply to the individuals concerned and not just to their Licensees, and the actual commission ($) should be shown on the Policy and not be buried (as a %) in a Schedule to the Strata Management Agency Agreement.
I must state at the outset that I’m not tarring all Strata Managers with the same brush, but rather am speaking only to what our Plan (in NSW) has experienced. That said, if all Strata Managers acted as advocates for their Owners Corporations instead of simply steering them in the direction of the Insurer/s for whom they’re Agents, and really did provide those Insurers with administrative support of the types you describe, then I could understand the current commission structure.
Apart perhaps for claims history, our previous Strata Managers had little if any knowledge of or skills to assess our Plan’s “risk” or so far as I’m aware have any input to the assessment of our premiums, and with at that time (2007) over thirty (30) Plans to individually manage, how could they?
We’ve only lodged two (2) small insurance claims over the past nine (9) years, in 2007 when we had a Strata Manager and in 2012 when we were self-managed (as now), and apart from when our Strata Manager lodged the claim, in both instances the process was identical; I was the liaison and there was never any involvement by an Assessor – pre or post those claims being accepted.
Without engaging in self-aggrandisement, although I rarely used them I hold the qualifications (and accreditation/s) necessary to conduct workplace and environmental assessments, and therefore did both of those on our Common Property (in 2005) as a free service to our Owners Corporation (O/C); that of course includes me! Our O/C has reviewed progress on the documented risk assessment, the bi-annual updates to that, and on our prioritised action plan at every AGM since, but none of that is of any interest to our Insurers in terms of it better assessing our Plan’s “risk” and thereby arriving at a “better” premium (read: < $6.5K/27 Lots). Our O/C has and continues to do everything that a Strata Manager should do (and more) with regard to proving it’s a low-risk, cooperative client who’s easy to do business with, and we’re anxious to engage a Broker who, with the benefit of all the information we hold to support our position, would recommend the most appropriate level of cover, at the best premium. We’d even be prepared to pay that Broker some of the $1.5K commission that would otherwise be payable to a Strata Manager for doing very much less. If you provide that type of independent service (i.e covering a range of Insurers), we’re interested! Thanks again for your informative post.