NCAT – Explaining what an Order means

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  • 16/01/2023 at 3:21 pm #67099
    TrulEConcerned
    Flatchatter

      Good day one and all,

      I recently went to NCAT (as the applicant) and several orders were handed down. One order is:

      The applicant is to file and serve upon the respondents points of claim setting out the orders sought, the facts relied upon as justifying the orders sought and the legal basis upon which it is alleged that the facts identified justify the making of the orders sought by….

      I would like to know if I should include evidence  when complying with that order or is evidence to be submitted by me at a future date.

      Note:

      NSW Fair Trading could not define the order for me;
      Law Access, ditto;
      NCAT, when called after the hearing took place, could not define this order for me; and
      Marrickville Legal Centre, which NCAT referred me to, will not help me because the property is an investment and under their charter/rules they only assist owner occupiers. They suggested I see a strata expert but the quantum of my claim would be less than what a strata expert would charge.

      Thanks in advance to anyone who can define the order for me.

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    • 18/01/2023 at 2:53 pm #67159
      papa smurf
      Flatchatter

        In my opinion, for what it is worth,

        “the facts relied upon as justifying the orders”

        would be where you would rely upon your evidence, so I would be submitting it with the application to seek the orders in the first place.

        Cheers

        19/01/2023 at 10:37 am #67174
        TrulEConcerned
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Hi Papa Smurf

          Thanks for your reply.

          It is incredibly confusing as different  websites hint at different definitions.

          Maybe I should have mentioned the other orders NCAT made at the time, one of which states that a month or so after I provide the “points of claim” to the Tribunal and Respondent that:

          The applicant shall provide to the respondent and the Tribunal, either in person or by post, a copy of all documents [here NCAT lists items eg photos, receipts, emails etc] on which the applicant intends to rely at the hearing in …..April

          I could be wrong but the more I read it the more that at the initial step is for me to provide the Tribunal with a list of what I want and the law to justify what I want. And that at a later date I am to provide the Tribunal with “documents” which include I believe evidence. I write this because if I provide evidence in the next few days, what am I provide in respect of the “documents” order.

          Does that make sense?

          19/01/2023 at 10:47 am #67181
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster
            TrulEConcerned wrote:

            The applicant is to file and serve upon the respondents points of claim setting out the orders sought, the facts relied upon as justifying the orders sought and the legal basis upon which it is alleged that the facts identified justify the making of the orders sought by….

            I can’t see what the confusion is here.  The Tribunals wants you to send the “respondents”:

            1. A list of the orders you seek
            2. A list of the facts that form the basis for the claim (i.e. the breaches of by-laws and/or strata laws that you allege have occurred).
            3. A list of the laws that apply and which you claim have been breached.

            Maybe I’m missing something here, but it seems pretty straightforward to me. Evidence has not been requested at this stage but you could allude to it in your response to part 2. E.g. Repondents have breached Section …. of the SSMA (photographs or correspondence etc on file).

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            19/01/2023 at 11:39 pm #67186
            TrulEConcerned
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Hey Jimmy,

              Thanks for the clarification.

              Your definition is what I was moving towards, but was unsure given online sources that I came across in NSW, where I reside and from sources in Victoria, were not crystal clear.

              I will act as you suggest and will limit my submission to only a handful of orders sought. That should help the Tribunal and the respondents. And me.

              FWIW, I learned two interesting things at the Directions Hearing.

              (1) That I can amend my complaint by adding new orders to my initial paperwork, but the respondents have the right to challenge the additional orders if they can prove that I was “out of time” when adding new orders.

              If NCAT says the respondent can do that, I accept that is their right. But if I feel the additional orders are very important, I surely can apply for them separately i.e. under a fresh application. Right?; and

              (2) NCAT is and remains – as I read in this forum as well as on solicitors’ blogs over the years – prima facie not enthusiastic to order a compulsory strata manager. Unless, I suppose I am able to offer an abundance of evidence that there is no better alternative to compulsory management.

               

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