Flat Chat Strata Forum Strata Committees Current Page

  • This topic has 12 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by .
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  • #71470
    TrulEConcerned
    Flatchatter

      Are there official or unofficial guidelines or regulations addressing the case when a SC member wants to do work for the OC?

      We have a SC member who wants to do work. In principle I have no problem with that. But he has offered no quote (just a price) and cannot confirm he is insured. That’s a big problem to me.

      The majority of the SC voted to approve his hire. I alone voted against.

      If there is a public liability claim as a result of his hire, who is on the hook?

      The OC? All the SC members in their personal capacities? The SC members in their personal capacities but only if they approved the hire?

      All views are welcome.

    Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
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    • #71475
      Just Asking
      Flatchatter

        What type of work is this strata committee member proposing to do? Gardening or cleaning? Plumbing or electrical? Other repairs? For relatively small monetary payments?

        #71522
        TrulEConcerned
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Hi Jimmy,

          Re: SC member offering to do work for OC

          I tried twice to post a reply to JustAsking, but my post never appeared.

          #71540
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            I tried twice to post a reply to JustAsking, but my post never appeared.

            No idea what went wrong – but, as you can see, the lines of communication are open.

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #71557
            TrulEConcerned
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Jimmy, ok, third time lucky.

              JustAsking, in answer to your query, the SC member wants to do what he calls a small maintenance job for $1,000 involving metalwork (not gardening, not plumbing, not electrical and not cleaning). I understand that wants to do more (metal and building) work as it is needed. And it is needed given the inactivity of the earlier committee. (That more work is needed is agreed by all).

              The facts for the above job are:
              1. No quote was offered, just a figure of $1,000 (even though 3 times I asked for a detailed quote) and
              2. No confirmation of public liability (“PL”) insurance was forthcoming. In fact when I raised the issue for the 3rd time I was told that he doesn’t think “this small job” warrants PL insurance but if I insist, he’ll get it but only if the OC pays for it.

               

              #71562
              tina
              Flatchatter

                You should treat the SC member just like any other contractor who does work for you.  They should provide a detailed quote.

                Check your insurance policy to see what public liability is available for people working on the property.  Talk to the insurance broker (or strata manager) about it.

                Read Part 3 of the Strata Schemes Management Act 2015 (NSW).  It says that the strata committee cannot make a decision which requires a special resolution to be passed.  (Section 36 3(a)).  An example of such a decision is when the external appearance of the common property is to be changed.  If the proposed work involves changing the external appearance of the common property, the owners corporation must decide on it.

                The owners corporation can override the strata committee if it disagrees with the Strata Committee.  See section 36 paragraph (2) of the Act.

                You can go to NCAT for an urgent hearing to stop work being done on common property.

                #71561
                Boronia
                Flatchatter

                  If he is an “employee” of the OC, it may have to provide workers comp cover; if he is a “volunteer” he may be covered by that section of OC insurance policy. There might also be an income tax liabilty?

                  If he is a contractor with an ABN, then the PL insurance should be his responsibilty, not the OC’s?

                  #71572
                  TrulEConcerned
                  Flatchatter
                  Chat-starter

                    Hi Tina and Boronia,

                    I am in a rush to dinner but wanted to address what I could in response to your posts. I will write more later.

                    Tina – I spoke to the insurer, at length. She was very informative. There is no PL cover for the strata in the event that an incident e.g. a fall that is a consequence of works performed by tradesman. The example given was a tradesman repairing a driveway and the job was not performed correctly, resulting in a delivery person, at a later date, tripping and falling when he would neither have tripped nor fallen had the job been done right.

                    As for the OC overriding the SC….. the SC is large and those not on it are all disinterested owners (some of which live in the bush and seem not to care who’s on the committee so long as they are not). They have rarely voted in person or by proxy at meetings.

                    Boronia – the insurer said (and this was news to me) that an owner (any owner, committee member, absentee etc) performing works at a strata is not considered a “volunteer”.

                    #71621
                    Boronia
                    Flatchatter

                      You’d have to wonder what they do consider to be “volunteers” then?

                      It seems very unethical, if not illegal, to sell a product with no apparent beneficiaries?

                      It might be worth considering that any work delegated to a “volunteer” is first formally approved by the OC and that they are capable and qualified if necessary to carry out the work. The OC is bound to comply with WHS rules.

                       

                      #71637
                      kaindub
                      Flatchatter

                        My understanding of volunteer in the context of strata and insurance is say a lot owner who takes the bins out and in, for no pay. He is volunteering to do what could normally be a paid job.

                        Once a lot owner starts to be paid for a service, he is not a volunteer.

                        The next consideration is whether he is an employee or a contractor. There are entire websites devoted to debating this conundrum.

                        Not with standing whether the lot owner ( it could also be a tenant ) is a contractor or a volunteer, the committee needs to consider what risk there is in the task. Carrying bins out probably represents a low risk to generate a public liability claim. Changing lights when up a ladder is more risky, but could still be beneath the threshold where insurance could be demanded.

                        With the cost of tradesmen and handymen, and the difficulty in getting them, it’s worth the OC considering using such resources provided there is a cost saving to the OC.

                         

                        #71683
                        TrulEConcerned
                        Flatchatter
                        Chat-starter

                          Kaindub, your point on “providing there is a cost saving” is what I have been arguing at the committee. If an owner in this case a committee member offers to do work without a quote and without a scope of works, how can we compare his offer to others and know if there indeed is a cost saving. There may be a saving and it may be big. Or there may be no saving, but how can we tell before his invoice is submitted.

                           

                          #71682
                          TrulEConcerned
                          Flatchatter
                          Chat-starter

                            Hey Boronia, looking at my notes I see how the insurer explained the concept of “volunteer”. If Mr X is an owner, regardless of whether he is an owner occupier or absentee landlord, he is not considered a “volunteer” in the event that he performs odd jobs at the strata scheme. The matter turns not on his relevant experience but on his address.

                            But say his grandson, who does not live at the scheme, visits him at the strata scheme and performs work (again regardless of work experience which may be relevant to the work performed) then the grandson is a “volunteer”.

                            #71711
                            Boronia
                            Flatchatter

                              Most of the readily available information on “volunteers” is along the lines of

                              Voluntary work includes any work performed by a member of the strata or any person volunteering on it’s behalf. It could be maintenance or renovation inside and outside of the building, or cleaning and gardening communal areas.

                              It’s common for owners or tenants to work on behalf of the strata company. But if one of these volunteers gets injured, the strata company may need to cover their income as per the PDS.

                              It seems your coverage may be selling you short. It might be worth looking at your policy to see the exact wording.

                               

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