Flat Chat Strata Forum Strata Committees Elections Current Page

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  • #68651
    TrulEConcerned
    Flatchatter

      The facts are:

      A strata committee of two persons is disbanding;
      My requests, for over a decade, to join the committee  were rejected by one member, who held sway over the other. And they held proxies of disinterested owners;
      Reasons for opposing me joining the SC are many and include my unearthing of payments made to one committee member in secret (done with the consent of the other committee member, but not the knowledge let alone consent of the OC) as well as a committee member paying for repairs that should have been paid by another lot;
      Recently I asked the newly appointed strata agent for financial details as at the start of his management. He replied that I should get them from the secretary. The latter has not provided me with the details despite being asked twice by me. When I asked the previous strata agent for those details, I received no answer. Maybe he is angry that I reported him to NSW FT which, after asking him a few questions, saw him resign as strata manager;
      The two person committee is now disbanding. An EGM will be held in a few days to assign all the committee’s powers to a strata agent. This agent was selected by the secretary, as was the one that quit.

      My question is: can the new agent or the SC or the OC assign all the powers of a SC to an agent without allowing
      owners not on the strata committee a say if they want to be on the committee? My biggest worry is that by not
      being on the committee, in this case there would be no committee, that I would still be denied timely
      information and issues would not be attended to as required if the agent so chooses.

      Thanks.

      • This topic was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by .
    Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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    • #68693
      Ziggy
      Flatchatter

        I think you can only elect SC members at an AGM. Not a general meeting. And owners can’t just nominate someone to be on the SC. They have to nominate themselves.

        #68698
        Jimmy-T
        Keymaster

          owners can’t just nominate someone to be on the SC. They have to nominate themselves.

          Not quite right.  Generally speaking, in NSW, owners can nominate anyone  – owner or not – to be on the strata committee, although that person must agree to the nomination. Most owners can nominate themselves except if they are co-owners, in which case they have to be nominated by the other co-owner(s) or another owner.  There are other exceptions for non-financial members or otherwise excluded members. It’s complicated, and ridiculously so.

          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
          #68709
          TrulEConcerned
          Flatchatter
          Chat-starter

            Thanks for both replies.

            It’s worth noting that when I asked the strata agent and the committee members to explain in detail the exact reasons for this EGM motion as well as under what authority (SSM Act?) this is taking place, the agent palmed me off to the committee and the committee ignored my email.

             

             

            #68785
            TrulEConcerned
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Update: The EGM was held. To date I have not received replies to my queries, not from the strata manager nor the OC.

              I referred the behaviour of the OC and strata mgr matter to NSW FT and as a courtesy, informed the OC and the agent of this.

              Quick as a wink I received a reply from the agent – presumably on behalf of the OC – as follows:

              “the OC will seek costs for spurious actions lodged….”

              Questions:

              (a) Am I correct to read the reply as a threat? If so, what are my options?

              (b) If the OC  does “seek costs”, I assume they will have to prove that my actions are “spurious” and lodge an application with NCAT for costs? True?

               

              • This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by .
              #68794
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                (a) Am I correct to read the reply as a threat? If so, what are my options?

                It certainly sounds like a threat and your options are varied:

                • ignore it and press on;
                • abandon your request for mediation (all you can ask from Fair Trading);
                • moderate your claim so that it doesn’t fall foul of the “costs” conditions at NCAT, should it ever get that far

                (b) If the OC  does “seek costs”, I assume they will have to prove that my actions are “spurious” and lodge an application with NCAT for costs? True?

                If this is about seeking legal costs for responding to a request for mediation at Fair Trading, that feels like a step too far, since the OC is not required to participate in a mediation that it hasn’t initiated.

                If you are referring to subsequent action at NCAT, as this factsheet from Legalvision explains, the bases for NCAT awarding costs are limited and discretionary, however, one of the conditions is that the case was “hopeless, frivolous, vexatious or misconceived”.

                On the other hand, if the case does go to NCAT and the OC loses, you should not be charged for any share of the legal expenses through your levies.

                 

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                #68796
                The Hood
                Flatchatter

                  The seeking of costs is the standard intimidation for the non strata savvy. All too often disputes go away if the OC, agent or a brief representing them starts talking about costs. It is just cliché intimidation. Costs are rarely awarded at first instance NCAT matters and are hard to get even at Appeal Panel level (the next step after the first try at NCAT). If you ever read about 20 or more NCAT cases relating to costs you will see it is so unpredictable it is embarrassing for NCAT.

                  Your SP is, prima facie, without question dysfunctional. To be blunt you are wasting your time trying to get FT, I assume the compliance division, do anything beneficial as they are more window dressing except in matters that verge on, or are, criminal.

                  I can’t see where the forum keymaster got the idea you have initiated mediation but if you haven’t then do that for fun. It’s free and it lets them know you aren’t a push over. There is no financial consequence, or any consequence, to doing mediation. I would mention it is likely to be a few months before you get a date because Fts mediation unit is like most things the State operates; i.e. under resourced.
                  I would suggest do not agree to anything if you do go to mediation because even though FTs’ mediation unit says these things are in good faith that is rubbish and NCAT will consider and give weight to what is in an agreement if someone uses it at NCAT.

                  That the agent and OC want to bounce you off the other when it comes to information is something that can be resolve by paying the $34 and requesting a search under s 182. Look up s 182 to see the process. If the agent or OC do not come to the party in the timeframe set by section 182 then cart them off to NCAT, no prior mediation required, where they will be ordered to give you what you seek as long as it is something the Act says you can see (see s 182(3) for that list). NCAT do not like OCs and agent who do not play nice when it comes to s 182.
                  If you do need to pay the $34 then ask to see everything on the list even if you don’t care for half of it. Agents dislike searches because they only get $34 for it and it takes some of them hours to get everything together. There is no money in being required to get everything out to present for a search.

                  Section 29 says the OC must appoint a SC. Probably one of those ‘musts’ than really means should because you don’t really have to but not having a SC has consequences. No SC then you either have to hold a gm every time you want to make a decision or you can delegate the functions of the SC to the agent (see s 29).

                  On assigning all the SCs’ power to the agent. That is either in the agreement or not in the agreement. If it is not in the current agreement then I do not believe the OC can just call a general meeting and delegate that function (see s 10(2) and 11 (b) before looking at Part 4).
                  In part 4 you will see at 49(2) the appointment is by instrument (an agreement).
                  Unless your existing agreement has some complex clause relating to changing the terms of the agreement you would need to terminate the current agreement and adopt by resolution a new agreement that did delegate the power of the SC to the agent. I would take it from the OC calling a gm that the existing agreement does not have a clause that already delegates the SC power to the agent. Most likely you are in the later boat; you need to terminate the current agreement and adopt a new one specifying the agents’ new authority.

                  Yours is a welcome to strata case. Dysfunctional people in positions of power somewhat protected by a broken system that does not help the aggrieved when the States licenced agents and framework for operation fail those who trust in them.

                  #68817
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster

                    I can’t see where the forum keymaster got the idea you have initiated mediation but if you haven’t then do that for fun.

                    Your comment is unwarranted.  The OP said he’d referred the matter to Fair Trading.  What else would he have applied to Fair Trading for? A bus pass? People approach Fair Trading for advice and get none, then they apply for mediation as it is a mandatory prerequisite for action at NCAT (where he clearly intends to take it).  Also, this is not this particular poster’s first rodeo, trust me.

                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                    • This reply was modified 1 year, 4 months ago by .
                    #68795
                    TrulEConcerned
                    Flatchatter
                    Chat-starter

                      Thanks for the reply Jimmy-T. Much appreciated.

                      I will read the LegalVision advice carefully.

                      At first blush I see no reason that NCAT could possibly award the opaque, unresponsive and secretive OC a farthing, let alone what they insinuate they will seek.

                      I suppose they are trying to bully me from continuing the current NCAT case.

                      If so, they better find a Plan B. The case must go on.

                      #68820
                      Jimmy-T
                      Keymaster

                        I see no reason that NCAT could possibly award the opaque, unresponsive and secretive OC a farthing, let alone what they insinuate they will seek.

                        If the OC can show that you have no case, and that you knew you had no case but, for instance, merely held a grudge because of behaviour you found unacceptable, that could turn out to be quite a lot of farthings in your debit column. You need to be very sure of your grounds before they “lawyer up” and those billable hours start adding up to your disadvantage. Talk to a lawyer.

                        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                        #68845
                        TrulEConcerned
                        Flatchatter
                        Chat-starter

                          Jimmy and The Hood, there is some confusion.

                          (a) Let me clarify. I mentioned to the strata mgr and SC that I applied for mediation.

                          The OC via the strata mgr replied threatening me with a costs order at NCAT. (I did not mention NCAT).

                          (b) Jimmy is right stating that mediation is a must before one can knock at NCAT’s door. But IMHO, mediation is not considered seriously by respondents because they can choose not to attend or to attend and agree to something, only to renege at a later date on their agreement. As far as I know, there are no penalties for such behaviour.

                           

                           

                          #68853
                          Jimmy-T
                          Keymaster

                            The OC via the strata mgr replied threatening me with a costs order at NCAT. (I did not mention NCAT).

                            The strata manager may have quite reasonably assumed you were planning to go to NCAT since, as you point out yourself, there is no other reason for applying for mediation in a case like this, especially where the two parties are highly unlikely to agree to a compromise.

                            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                            #68870
                            The Hood
                            Flatchatter

                              The OP said “I referred the behaviour of the OC and strata mgr matter to NSW FT and as a courtesy, informed the OC and the agent of this.”

                              I have often referred the behaviour of a strata manager to FT, to the compliance division of FT which is not the mediation unit. No point in mediating such things. There isn’t a code of conduct for agents in the PSA Act for fun, although it seems window dressing.
                              I have applied for mediation, never referred. I have referred to the compliance division, never applied.

                              OP has since clarified. My apologies for interpreting their comment as being a refereal rather than an application.
                              Just on mediation; there are provisions to apply to have it not needed, i.e. dispensed with, s 218. This is a lot narrower than the 1996 version of the same, s 125, which only required one to show mediaition was inappropriate. I did successfully have mediation dispensed with just once and that was in relation to a records search. A records search is now, in the 2015 Act, one of those matters that do not require mediation.

                              And as I said before – never agree to anything at mediation as NCAT will look at these agreements and give weight to what is in them.
                              From a legal stand point these are dangerous agreements for ordinary owners to enter into without proper legal advice on what is proposed to be agreed to.

                              A couple of cases where mediation agreements meant something at NCAT.
                              Macey’s Group Pty Ltd v Owners – Strata Plan No 33591 [2021] NSWCATAP 7
                              and
                              Gorski v The Owners Strata Plan No 36965 [2019] NSWCATCD

                               

                              #68897
                              TrulEConcerned
                              Flatchatter
                              Chat-starter

                                Good day TheHood,

                                Could you provide the link for the Gorski case?

                                I cannot seem to find it online. Thanks.

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