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Topic
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Dear Jimmy
Several members of the executive committee at a strata complex in which we own a townhouse (in NSW) have ‘resolved’ to use UNLICENSED tradespeople to carry out much-needed maintenance work at our complex. The strata managers of this complex – and the bulk of the executive committee members – are suggesting these unlicensed tradespeople carry out this work.
Out of 20+ owners of the lots, three of us are desperately trying to:
a) Get rid of the strata managers and replace them with competent managers
b) Get urgent maintenance repairs carried out
c) STOP unlicensed tradespeople being authorised to carry out maintenance repairs
On b), for example, we have been waiting a YEAR to have drainage issues sorted out (it’s causing cracking to the upper-floor ceilings and rising damp in the lounge downstairs), as well as rotting bargeboards and flakey tiles (on the latter, we have just had to pay $800 to put right shoddy maintenance carried out.
Short of going down the legal right and mounting a challenge, can you suggest the BEST way forward for us three lonely ‘warriors’ tackling incompetent strata management – and intrasigent exec. committee members!
For example, can we, as members of the owners’ corporation and executive committee, reject the executive committee bulk vote to use unlicensed tradespeople – given that under the law the owners’ corporation could be held liable for any injury sustained by unlicensed people?
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Replies
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@IBC said:
Hi all,Some really great responses to this issue, if I may summarise:-
Keep in mind that we are NSW based so my comments may not be applicable to your State.
1) We would all hope that no Strata Manager (SM) worth their appointment would ever consider having any unlicensed contractor on site, however if they did they would breach their duty of care, remember Strata firms and their managers are given delegated authority and as such must act in compliance to the SSM Act and within the laws of their state.
2) All residential building work over $1,000 in NSW must be undertaken by a Licensed contractor for the trade work to be done ( Electrician, Plumber, Builder etc) as such if a SM or EC allow unlicensed and or uninsured contractors to do work then they are in my opinion a dysfunctional OC and not managing the OC in a manner that is required, as such in NSW under these circumstances you may have a very good chance in placing an application to the CTTT to have a compulsory Strata Manager appointed to sort out the mess. You don’t need the support of the committee, the OC or any other owner. If you want to explore this option it is best to discuss with a Strata Lawyer. See this web site Law Firm Sponsor.
3) This issue of licensed contractors is a continuing issue for the Strata Sector to deal with. I support OC subscribing to an a service provider that critique Contractors, however don’t be lured into a false sense of security as these checks only disclose that the contractor is licensed and insured, they don’t provide any review of the contractors quality of work and their dependability. So make sure you ask for references and check them out. Call a couple of OC they are doing work for at the time of getting a quote from them!
4) What I am about to say will seem like I am pushing my companies barrow, but a big problem in Strata is that far too often works are contracted out without ample Research or without a detailed Scope of works. You need to know what is the problem and what is the most cost effective but also BCA compliant way to fix the issue. A good scope should result in you getting apple for apple quotations as well as being able to have a clear document to set the completed works against as undertaken. Which brings me to another issue and that is who should sign off the works? I would suggest that it should not be an Owner or a member of the EC even if experianced. Get an independant expert who has Professional Indemnity Insurance to carry out the progress payment inspection and the final inspection.
5) Finaly maintenance work will be required from time to time and short cut cheap jobs never return anything except short term results. Your Strata Building is the Owners greatest asset. I see far too often Owner’s spending more time and money on their motor car then their home.
I hope this summary has been helpful. If we can help we would be happy to provide a quotation.
Chris Mo’ane AIAMA, MASBC-CPC
GMD Integrated Consultancy Group
Building Consultants, Engineers and Strata Consultancy
Principal Sponcers OCN, Corporate Members SCA, FPAThank you for the excellent response Chris. I will show it to our Strata Manager and EC as we have an tradesman in our villas and he has been asked to do various jobs around the place.
What comeback is there if the people who actually do the work for him seem to be labourers not professional tradesmen, and the finished work is not ‘up to scratch’?
I suspect no one in the small complex wants to create friction as the tradesman seems to be well liked and offers to do ‘odd jobs’ for other Owners.
A perennial difficulty we have is finding reasonable trades people to do jobs that are less than a builder would be interested in but a bit involved or complex for an ordinary handyman.
Hi,
In answer to your questions I go back to my advice that any job to a value greater then $1,000.00 must have a contract and be done by a licensed tradesman and if the work is over $20,000.00 must have Home Owners Warranty Insurance. So it’s OK to have a resident tradesman do the work so long as he/she is licensed in the trade works to be done and if the works are over $1,000 he/she enters into a contract. As for who the contractor uses they may use labourers so long as they supervise them, in the end a contractor is responsible for the work whether they do it or anyone under their direction. The best way any OC should proceed when they use in house trades is don’t look or treat them as an Owner they are professional trades persons and should be dealt with as you would with any contractor.
Finally again if it’s anything bigger than maintenance work get an external building consultant to help, remember check them out and get a copy of their Professional Indemnity Insurance. Best of luck moving forward.
Chris Mo’ane GMD Integrtaed Consultancy Group
>>@FlatChatFan said:@IBC said:
Hi all,Some really great responses to this issue, if I may summarise:-
Keep in mind that we are NSW based so my comments may not be applicable to your State.
1) We would all hope that no Strata Manager (SM) worth their appointment would ever consider having any unlicensed contractor on site, however if they did they would breach their duty of care, remember Strata firms and their managers are given delegated authority and as such must act in compliance to the SSM Act and within the laws of their state.
2) All residential building work over $1,000 in NSW must be undertaken by a Licensed contractor for the trade work to be done ( Electrician, Plumber, Builder etc) as such if a SM or EC allow unlicensed and or uninsured contractors to do work then they are in my opinion a dysfunctional OC and not managing the OC in a manner that is required, as such in NSW under these circumstances you may have a very good chance in placing an application to the CTTT to have a compulsory Strata Manager appointed to sort out the mess. You don’t need the support of the committee, the OC or any other owner. If you want to explore this option it is best to discuss with a Strata Lawyer. See this web site Law Firm Sponsor.
3) This issue of licensed contractors is a continuing issue for the Strata Sector to deal with. I support OC subscribing to an a service provider that critique Contractors, however don’t be lured into a false sense of security as these checks only disclose that the contractor is licensed and insured, they don’t provide any review of the contractors quality of work and their dependability. So make sure you ask for references and check them out. Call a couple of OC they are doing work for at the time of getting a quote from them!
4) What I am about to say will seem like I am pushing my companies barrow, but a big problem in Strata is that far too often works are contracted out without ample Research or without a detailed Scope of works. You need to know what is the problem and what is the most cost effective but also BCA compliant way to fix the issue. A good scope should result in you getting apple for apple quotations as well as being able to have a clear document to set the completed works against as undertaken. Which brings me to another issue and that is who should sign off the works? I would suggest that it should not be an Owner or a member of the EC even if experianced. Get an independant expert who has Professional Indemnity Insurance to carry out the progress payment inspection and the final inspection.
5) Finaly maintenance work will be required from time to time and short cut cheap jobs never return anything except short term results. Your Strata Building is the Owners greatest asset. I see far too often Owner’s spending more time and money on their motor car then their home.
I hope this summary has been helpful. If we can help we would be happy to provide a quotation.
Chris Mo’ane AIAMA, MASBC-CPC
GMD Integrated Consultancy Group
Building Consultants, Engineers and Strata Consultancy
Principal Sponcers OCN, Corporate Members SCA, FPAThank you for the excellent response Chris. I will show it to our Strata Manager and EC as we have an tradesman in our villas and he has been asked to do various jobs around the place.
What comeback is there if the people who actually do the work for him seem to be labourers not professional tradesmen, and the finished work is not ‘up to scratch’?
I suspect no one in the small complex wants to create friction as the tradesman seems to be well liked and offers to do ‘odd jobs’ for other Owners.
I know this is an old topic, but it is very “live” for me in NSW currently. In 2013, our Strata Manager, Building Manager and ExCo ignored expert professional advice, and agreed to engage an unlicensed contractor to do almost $20K of common property work. This unlicensed contractor had no qualifications to do the job detailed by the expert’s report. Now of course, there are issues with the work that has been done – there was no contract, and no warranties.
All of them have shrugged their shoulders and pretty much gone, so what, you’re a real troublemaker, we followed the instructions of the (unlicensed) contractor who followed the specifications of the expert engineer.
Naturally, I am now seeking consequences, as $20K is not a paltry sum to throw away and ask owners to dip into their pockets to replace. I get the negligence part of it, but my question now is about Section 5 of the Home Building Act, 1989.
5 Seeking work by or for unlicensed person
(1) An individual, a member of a partnership, an officer of a corporation or a corporation must not represent that the individual, partnership or corporation is prepared to do:
(a) any residential building work, or
(b) any specialist work,
if the individual, partnership or corporation is not the holder of a contractor licence authorising its holder to contract to do that work.
(2) A person must not represent that an individual, partnership or corporation is prepared to do:
(a) any residential building work, or
(b) any specialist work,
if the person knows that the individual, partnership or corporation is not the holder of a contractor licence authorising its holder to contract to do that work.
Q1. Do these definitions include the Strata and Building Managers, who must have known that the guy was not fit to do the job?
Q2. The job was completed in the second half of 2013. Did Section 5 exist back then in its current form?
Many thanks.