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  • #11827 Reply | Quote
    KAlice
    Flatchatter

      Our strata complex in NSW is currently in the throes of a large remediation process, mainly for water penetration issues. Our lot’s contribution to special levy was a bit < 20K. Our lot has a roof terrace, with a glass barrier on top of a solid wall to meet height regulations. The wall in question has 4 panes of glass approximately 750 mm x 300 mm. It joins a similar wall at right angles. The floor of the terrace needs to be lifted approx 150 mm at one end for waterproofing considerations, making the balcony height inconsistent with regulations. The proposal is for the strata to replace one of these panes, making the barrier consistent with regulations. The problem from my POV is that I’ll be left with an odd-looking, uneven top to my balcony wall. The roof terrace is probably the most valuable feature of the unit, so I do not wish to have it devalued. I have been told I can pay myself to have the other 3 panes replaced (approximately 2K, although a cheaper quote may be found). I could do this, but I have already contributed a lot to the remediation, as well as being the most inconvenienced unit owner over several years due to ongoing leaking.  What’s my position? Should I expect that strata modifications to common property on my lot  maintain the aesthetic integrity and value of my lot where possible (not hard to achieve here). Or should I suck it up? I was originally going to go with second option, but I think there could be an issue of principle here (and I’d be willing to take it further to test it, if appropriate). Would other owners accept a random pane of glass spoiling the alignment of their balcony (or swimming pool) wall? BTW, tthe exec committee are good, hard-working and reasonable people trying to do their best for the owners.  Thank you for your consideration of my first post. I have gained a lot of value in the past from scrolling through the forum on other topics.

    Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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    • #30205 Reply
      Lady Penelope
      Flatchatter

        Who originally installed the glass panels that added extra height to your balustrade – was it you or was it the OC?

        #30206 Reply
        KAlice
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Thanks for your response.

          The glass panels were installed by the builder at the time the original building was converted to strata (so neither I nor the OC).

          To explain: the terrace is spilt level, with the upper level being about 300 mm higher than the lower level. The surrounding parapet is a constant height, so the glass panels were installed to 2 sides of the terrace on the upper level where the parapet height was insufficient to comply with regulations. 

          Remediation work is currently being carried out; to ensure integrity of the waterproof membrane, the floor level of the upper terrace must be elevated by about 150 mm over a small area. At this point, the barrier height is less than 1 metre from the floor level. The suggested solution is to replace the single glass panel at this point with one that is 150 mm higher. There are presently 4 glass panels along this section, so this would leave me with a balcony edge with one panel jutting up over the rest (obviously not a good aesthetic solution from my POV).

          I have been told that I can pay to have the other 3 panels replaced if I want a straight edge to my terrace wall. This is about 2K. However, I feel this may be a strata responsibility, to ensure that necessary remediation of OC property does not adversely affect the value of my lot.

          I would value an informed opinion here…whether I should suck it up or pursue my rights (if I have any). 

          Many thanks.

          #30207 Reply
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            This reminds me of occasions where OCs have dug up a bathroom or kitchen floor and tried to replace the broken or missing tiles with “near as” when identical tiles weren’t available (they never are).  If I recollect correctly, they usually end up having to re-tile the whole area.

            The significant section of the law is 106 (below) which sets out the Owners Corporation’s responsibility to maintain and repair common property.

            Section 106.3 allows the OC to decide by special resolution not to repair or replace common property, provided “its decision will not … detract from the appearance of any property in the strata scheme.”

            I think you could “take that to the bank”, as they say.  Obviously, their decision not to line up the glass affects the look of the property so that’s a decision they are not entitled to make, whether by a simple majority or even a special resolution.

            If they are as reasonable as you say, just show them the law and leave them to do the right thing.

             

            106   Duty of owners corporation to maintain and repair property

            (1)  An owners corporation for a strata scheme must properly maintain and keep in a state of good and serviceable repair the common property and any personal property vested in the owners corporation.

            (2)  An owners corporation must renew or replace any fixtures or fittings comprised in the common property and any personal property vested in the owners corporation.

            (3)  This section does not apply to a particular item of property if the owners corporation determines by special resolution that:

            (a)  it is inappropriate to maintain, renew, replace or repair the property, and

            (b)  its decision will not affect the safety of any building, structure or common property in the strata scheme or detract from the appearance of any property in the strata scheme.

            If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
            #30209 Reply
            KAlice
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Many thanks for such a prompt and comprehensive reply.

              Would those ’tile cases’ be available via NCAT, if I need to reference them? I had read about them before, but couldn’t locate them when I was trying to google info regarding my issue.

              #30210 Reply
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                @KAlice said:
                Would those ’tile cases’ be available via NCAT, if I need to reference them? 

                Sorry – I had a quick look – which is hard as all those cases on Austlii are fascinatiing, if irrelevant – and couldn’t find anything.

                However, I think the section of the Act I quoted is all the ammunition you need.  You could do a search here for “tiles” but unfortunately, even if you do find something relevant, people often come here for advice but don’t return to tell us the outcome.

                If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
                #30213 Reply
                KAlice
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  Hi Jimmy,

                  Perhaps not as reasonable as I claimed…but I don’t doubt that they’re well meaning.

                  The feedback I’ve received is that I’m probably being unreasonable for wanting the OC to be responsible for ‘aesthetic reasons’. I pointed out that the Act directly references ‘appearance’. All I’m asking for is that my glass barrier looks as close as possible to its original condition at the conclusion of the work. 

                  As I’m a novice at this process, can you please give me some direction as to my next steps.

                  You said “their decision not to line up the glass affects the look of the property so that’s a decision they are not entitled to make, whether by a simple majority or even a special resolution.” What is the process from my POV if they only want to be responsible for the single glass panel? Do I challenge the decision (and how)? Do I apply for mediation straight up? A strata lawyer has been suggested, but is that necessary in a situation such as this?

                  Sorry if these are very basic questions. One hopes to never be in this type of situation, but being able to ask for advice like this is fantastic.

                  #30215 Reply
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster

                    The process is to apply for mediation, which is an obligatory prerequisite before you take them to the Tribunal seeking orders under section 132.2 compelling them to fulfil their obligations.

                    Often the very fact that you are determined to take the next step may be enough to galvanise these recalcitrants.

                    You’ll find a mediation application form HERE.

                    By the way, the logic in this case is quite simple. The OC raised the level of the floor to undertake work that was for everyone’s benefit.  You have paid your share of having that work done (even though it seems it is of little direct benefit to you).

                    To make the work compliant with building regs, they have had to raise one section of the balustrade. That means their work has made your outlook uneven and ugly.  Their legal and moral obligation is to fix it.

                    By the way, if they choose to fight this at NCAT, you can ask that all costs be awarded against the OC in a way that means you don’t have to pay a share of the special levy that they will be required to raise.

                    If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
                    #30216 Reply
                    KAlice
                    Flatchatter
                    Chat-starter

                      Many thanks. I’ll let you know the outcome.

                      Cheers

                      #30245 Reply
                      KAlice
                      Flatchatter
                      Chat-starter

                        Hi,

                        Well, despite me showing them the legislation, your opinion and a real estate agent’s opinion that the terrace was the most valuable part of my lot, they have turned down my request for the OC to pay for replacement panels to make the top of the glass barrier even. I will take it further as you suggest as I think there is an important principle at stake.

                        Would anyone care to comment on their reasoning (especially underlined section) as it would help me in the mediation process:

                        “In addition to this we believe that the Strata Schemes Management Act 2015 – Section 106 in regard to the issue with the glass panels should be interpreted as follows.

                        Paragraph (1) and (2) of Section 106 state that the Owners Corporation must properly maintain and keep in a state of good and serviceable repair common property. This extends to fixtures and fittings (such as the glass panel) which must be renewed or replaced if required to properly maintain and keep in a state of good and serviceable repair common property. 

                        In regard to the glass panel this means that the non-compliant glass panel needs to be replaced – even though it is in perfect working condition – as it is not compliant with regulation. Paragraph (1) and (2), however do not apply to the other, compliant glass panels as they are not only in perfect working condition but they are also compliant with all relevant legislation and as such the requirement to properly maintain and keep in a state of good and serviceable repair does not apply to them. 

                        Paragraph (3) details under which conditions an Owners Corporation may decide to not maintain or repair common property. This section is not relevant in regard to the issue of the glass panel as we are not seeking an exemption from the obligation to maintain common property but are intending to replace the non-compliant glass panel.

                        We are aware that the obligation to properly maintain and keep in a state of good and serviceable repair common property has been held in a variety of cases to extent to aesthetic concerns (although different scenarios where a repair was otherwise under consideration), however as detailed above we do not believe that replacing the non-compliant glass panel with a slightly higher glass panel will raise aesthetic concerns and as such there is no obligation for the Owners Corporation to replace the compliant glass panels. Having said that, we would have no objections to consider a proposal to replace the compliant glass panels at your own cost.”

                         

                        Many thanks

                        #30250 Reply

                        Oh for heaven’s sake. You say they are “hard working” – they certainly are working hard to twist meanings of words. If only they were that willing to work hard on a compromise.

                        I find it hard to believe that replacing one glass panel will in fact meet safety concerns; will the rise in the floor level be “ramped” to the present level so the existing panels still fulfill their safety function? (I imagining someone leaning across from the raised floor level to enable themselves to get over the lower barrier. I’m imagining a child doing this and falling to their death and your OC being sued….)

                        The underlined part of your post boils down to “you so tom-ay-to; we say tom-a-toe” – they don’t think it’s an aesthetic issue. Surely that’s in the eyes of the beholding owner!

                        As previously suggested, file the papers for mediation. Hopefully everyone will come to their senses that $2000 is a small price to pay to avoid thousands in legal fees and time wasted.

                        And go back to the books looking for those tile cases. They are exactly on point.

                        Good luck.

                        #30302 Reply
                        KAlice
                        Flatchatter
                        Chat-starter

                          Hi Tess,

                          Thanks for your post. I have taken a while to reply as this whole experience had been so dispiriting.

                          After thanking the SC for their response, I informed them I disagreed with their reasoning and would proceed to mediation.

                          Well then the legal guy (LG) on the SC started in. I think his initial intention was to overwhelm me by his ‘legalese’ ( although couched in terms of wanting to better understand the situation). LG has been cherrypicking and twisting words, and asking inane ‘ lawyerly’ questions that are very time consuming to answer. The subtext seems obvious…

                          LG even used my single use of the word ‘agreed’ to suggest that I was responsible for the consequences of the balustrade needing remediation. ( The ‘ agreement’ was in relation to work already done and for which I was informed there was no alternative.) 

                          Anyway, if anyone has any relevant cases or other suggestions of where to look, that would be great. I’ve looked through all the Strata cases on the NCAT site. I can’t find the tile cases there, although I have found some references to them in some discussion threads.

                          Any input would be appreciated.

                          #30303 Reply
                          Jimmy-T
                          Keymaster

                            I really don’t know why you are bashing your head off that brick wall – especially when there is a lawyer involved (who I will bet my bottom dollar is not a strata lawyer).

                            No matter what other cases you find, Rumpole of the Strata is going to dismiss them and try to bully you into submission.

                            Your committee is hiding behind the lawyer and the lawyer thinks they are a bit superior to the rest of us, so nothing you say to them directly will make any difference.

                            If I were you, I would go for mediation, then for NCAT orders and let them try to bully a Tribunal Member, with  bluster and BS, into ignoring the law. 

                            If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
                            #30313 Reply

                            Don’t worry about finding a case. Just raise the idea of a single cracked tile that needs to be replaced inside a unit … but the tiles are no longer produced. Would anyone put up with a single mismatched tile or would they agree that all the tiles should be replaced in that case?

                            As previously indicated, once you file for mediation, they may realise you are serious and back right down. When you compare the time, effort and (if they engage a lawyer) cost to the OC, they might realise that simply paying to have them replaced will be the cheaper option.

                            I know it’s a big step, but you are in the right here and just need to DO IT.

                          Viewing 13 replies - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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