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Hello All
Thank you one and all for your most helpful responses to a perplexing issue that for now may be dormant but you are all correct in that it could all very well go sour and blow up in our own faces and prevention is most certainly better than a cure to put at risk a possible $2 mil asset.
You have all convinced me that the best way to achieve our goals would be to seek a professional opinion from experts in the field to make our mutually agreed wishes rock solid and bullet proof, not so much for the immediate future, since both owners are happy and enjoy a coffee and a chat but more for the longer term future ahead, especially if ever one party were to sell their property to a new party and the existing owners just wanted the status quo to proceed rather than go through the whole process again from the start and possibly introduce sweeping changes that they didn’t agree with.
I will initiate contact with the other home owners and let them know that in this case it would be most certainly better to be safe than sorry and that we both should consider what it is we both really want and to draft out our mutually agreed ideas and then consult a professional to set about documenting our wishes and then to register such wishes into a bylaw… or 2.
Maybe after all this is set in stone i will be able to enjoy those yearly coffee chats again, however, I am very grateful for all the advice provided past and present in this forum.
I will be taking the said advice and seeking medical, oops sorry, I mean professional help..
So I have been in contact with both:
1) NSW fair trading and
2) properties and land information
and I get conflicting information
Fair trading have confirmed that I don’t need to register anything with anyone.
The properrty already has a registered strata scheme. Thge model by-laws are in place. Any changes can be managed between the 2 owners as long as it is documented in meetings
Properties and land information advise that we, the owners should have a title certificate and common property title certificate.
To change the by-laws i need to write up the change then submit on the correct form and submit along with the original common property title certificate.
I was directed to their web page and to read the information to find the information I require.
Theirs does sound the more logical of the 2 options because having confirmed safeguards does sound like a better and more secure option, especially since it can be proven that the changes to bylaws were mutually agreed upon and lodged as proof.
Oh well, looks like the coffee and a chat will have to wait a little longer.
Thanks once again for all the assistance and advice from everyone as I very much do appreciate all the help.
I think I will investigate the option of any legal assistance as well since it is growing in complexity.
All both home owners wanted was:
1) shared building insurance
2) no levies
3) no sinking fund
4) no auditor
5) self management and responsibility of our own properties
6) the only common property being the shared driveway, fence running along the side of both properties and that is it
I was hoping that the rules were clear cut and easy to follow
OK ! Firstly thankyou one and all for all the very informative replies.
I am pleased to recieve so many replies to this question because firstly, as a typical homeowner I am certainly no expert in this field and trying to find out exactly what each homeowner should and must do wasn’t very easy either.
Thank you scotlandx because there were several replies with I need to register something with someone but you have stated: “…you need to resolve to pass by-laws and register those by-laws with the Department of Lands….”
Thank you for making that clear and that is what I had been hoping for. A source for where I can ask the right questions and get the right answers.
You also state: “…If you want to make each owner responsible for specific parts of the property, then you need to determine what they are, and that needs to be spelt out in the by-laws, because what you are doing or would like to do is giving each other exclusive use…”
Thank you again for your clarity.
kiwipaul, thankyou for your continued persistence to make me see the reality of things legally rather than a forelorn hope until something sours.
IBC, our duplex is a registered strata with a strata plan number and I do thank you for your diplomatic reply and strong suggestion of further legal advice.
So I have searched the internet and found this site: https://www.lands.nsw.gov.au/
The Land and Property Management Authority (LPMA) was abolished under the NSW Government restructure announced in April 2011 and its former business divisions transferred to new departments. All divisions are continuing business as usual and the previous customer contact points are available.
I have made a call to the office Land and Property information:
They have confirmed that the strata plan for this property as registered with them have adopted the model strata by laws
I have made a call and being friday afternoon, they have advised a senior person will call me back Monday in regards to:
1) a duplex situation under a strata plan and what needs to be registered
2) what needs to be done to make both owners responsible for their own homes in terms of any repairs or capital improvements.
I do appreciate all the advice provided as it has proved to be invaluable and has highlighted my own shortfalls and lack of knowledge and expertise and the pitfalls in buying into a duplex strata, however, we were just lucky that so far there has been zero issues and no fallout between the 2 parties.
Of course this could change and everything could go sour and that is what we both want to protect against.
We didn’t really want to explore the Torrens title option as that will involve additional expense, but in the end if we need to consult our solicitors/ lawyers then it will be at a cost anyway to both parties, then perhaps a Torrens application might be a better outcome.
I will post a reply when I have spoken to a representative from the Land and Property information office.
I had sent an email to NSW fair Trading but they failed to reply within their 24 hr timeframe, so maybe Monday.
This certainly isn’t as easy as I first thought and I do appreciate this forum for providing an avenue and link to yourselves and your invaluable insight and advice
Thank you one and all so far and keep the advice coming with whatever you have to share that can shed more light on what is a complex but interesting exercise for me.
I now wonder…When I can feel secure and I can just hold yearly coffee catch ups and have a chat..
Hello kiwipaul
Your reply caused a little concern to myself, so I called up the NSW Office of Fair trading to make an enquiry regarding what official documents I needed to lodge/ register after holding our first AGM.
The Representative on the phone has confirmed that I have done nothing wrong and nothing needs to be registered.
The only time I need to register anything with the Land office, I think she said was if we decide to change the bylaws, but by adopting the model default bylaws, then we need not lodge/ register anything.
Thanks again for your reply kiwipaul as this has prompted me to check and given me enough assurances that we have done the correct thing.
Regarding each owner is responsible for their own property in it’s entirety, I had stipulated in the AGM agenda and confirmed the decision in the minutes captured and issued back to the owners via email, then confirmed acceptance of the minutes in the next AGM
Hello kiwipaul
Oops !
Thankyou for that informative reply. Looks like we had done everything right up until where you stated:
1) by creating a Strata document
2) and registering the bylaws
When I read the strata living document from the NSW Fair trading office I couldn’t find anything that stated WHERE I am supposed to lodge our bylaws and what is a Strata document ?
I have maintained meeting invites, agendas, minutes but nothing else.
Hello PeterC
In fact it was myself and not pauline that purchased the Duplex.
Of course we have title documents.
I did so about 2-3 years ago in fact and I am still living in that said duplex now and let it be known that in fact there are ZERO issues or problems between the other duplex owner and myself, rather we have become good neighbours and friends.
We have started and maintained good healthy relations and we even help each other when we need help. There is good communication between both families and there is ZERO conflict.
I knew this would be important when I decided to buy into such an arrangement.
We live in sydney, which, as you should know is an expensive housing market. Our price is in fact what I believe is the right “market price” because yes we did our homework and similar priced properties were going for if not substantially more, then simiilar prices.
It is a double storey, double brick construction and rather new with all the fancy luxury inclusions imagineable that no one notices unless they spend the time to look closely at (which thankfully very few people do).
During purchase of course we consulted solicitors, who reviewed the contracts with us closely and closely advised of all our options to a 2 duplex strata property purchase.
Although I myself haven’t heard very much about such setups, I had encountered a few during our initial search for a new home, so I wasn’t put off, although I think that is the only thing that kept most buyers away (a good thing for me).
This purchase in fact was for a property that the original owner occupied and owned both residences and was now selling both, but he himself had not created a strata scheme yet because he was occupying both.
By the time of settlement it was left to us, the first buyer and the original owner.
The owner eventually sold the other property and then it was left to the other “new” owner and myself to set up and maintain the scheme or have it managed by a professional strata manager at a price.
Instead I consulted the NSW Fair trading office, downloaded a copy of the strata laws, researched the topic myself and asked around.
Both owners agreed we would self manage the strata.
At the first AGM that we held between both owners we had lengthy discussions about all sorts of topics.
I printed out the strata laws and by laws and we used that as a basis to start and open discussions.
I minuted the lot.
Since then we have had yearly AGM’s with little to NO issues raised.
We have agreed to pay our own expenses and share the property insurance.
Other than that, we… in the famous words of my know-it-all, nosy, but good natured friend Pauline would say… “…all i need to do is hold monthly (No make that Yearly) coffee catch ups and have a chat…..”
During the course of our stay both owners have experienced leaking roofs, minor exterior capital improvements all paid for by the respective homeowner’s themselves.
We have interests in other strata properties and my partner is on the executive committee of a unit block so strata laws & bylaws are not foreign to us.
No lawyers were harmed during and after our property purchase and no lawyers were negligent.
PeterC you are wrong by a large margin. No one would knowingly hand over $900k+ in cash for nothing to a stranger.
However, I do thank you for your warnings as I am sure you are at least only considering our vested interest in our property as no one would want to be out of pocket by 900k+ and be left homeless.
