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Very interested in hearing more of your story – we too are concrete cancer sufferers – over 2 years of pain, loss of rent, dysfunctional SC, lack of communication etc etc etc. We have been forced into legal action and awaiting NCAT hearing dates etc. In the meantime I have been sacked from the strata committee because of ‘conflict of interest’, ie taking legal action. Been refused email copies of strata meeting agenda and minutes – the list goes on. Our unit is unrentable (uninhabitable is very hard to claim on insurance, even though the flooring is dangerous, trip hazards etc we can actually use the unit as the power is on and the sewer still works).
I would also add to the diary – how the noise affects you. eg stops you sleeping, wakes you up, makes you stressed.
This could be concrete cancer – you should have it investigated further.
Well our upstairs neighbour finally installed carpet throughout their unit. Our new SM sent them a letter saying they would be in breach of the order and face severe penalties if they did not fix their flooring.
Now, while that result is what we were after, they have installed commercial carpet so that they have a smooth look like floorboards – so we still have noise but I don’t think we can do much about it. I think the carpet is very hard, not soft like domestic carpet and so there is no cushioning. Does any one know anything about differences in commercial to domestic carpet. We know they were installing good quality underlay – well that’s what they said. Can we get SM to ask for details/specifications of the carpet?
Congratulations Patricia SC – all this stress even with an order takes its toll, mentally, emotionally and physically. Like andyj having those links would be great please.
I am not sure of the motives or outcomes as to our upstairs tricky neighbours submission to the OC for approval to lay the extra insulation – they cannot make a decision that the extra insulation will solve the problem but it is still confusing and worrying, (we don’t know how the EC/OC will react to this and may have a majority who think this is OK) or where in fact this will lead to. If the OC approves this, maybe an adjudicator at penalty hearing will view this as OK ? don’t know. It also means calling a meeting, delaying tactics – they still have about 5 weeks to comply.
Every day a new twist, turn and worry.
drshelley
We will certainly be warning them of this and also of the fact that if we apply for a penalty order we can at the same time apply for any costs, including legal fees which might be in the order of $9000.
Judging by the noise last night, thuds, jumping on the floor, running etc for over 2 hours- not even carpet would solve the issue. It was unbearable and unacceptable by a country mile.
thank you Jimmy T. Your advice as usual gives us so much confidence.
This evening however, we have received another email saying that they have been recommended to use 5mm regupol plus relay their current 2mm of quiet step underlay. They are also going to carpet the 3 bedrooms.
At least this is a start. But as you say the OC cannot instruct them on what insulation to use nor overturn an adjudicator’s order. However they do need OC permission to pull up the floorboards.
At this stage I think our response will be that even 11mm regupol is only a ‘distant second’ to carpet. They will still take a risk that this will not fix the problem. To quote our neighbour she states that ‘she is confident this premium underlay will considerably improve the noise transfer into our unit and meet the by-law”.
Any further opinion would be appreciated. Should we request that an additional 5mm underlay would be the minimum.
Well I was warned – recent jubilation that our recent submission for adjudication was successful and our upstairs neighbour was ordered to comply with by-law and treat ALL their floors. To me this seems simple – neighbour was given 10 weeks to comply. In their submission respondent (go-ahead young couple) had requested orders against us (I didn’t know you could do this) 1. that we insulate our ceiling – order denied as adjudicator said we had not contributed to their noise at all. 2. that they carpet the bedrooms and put rugs in living areas – adjudicator view was that this order request reinforced the idea that they knew they were making noise and the order was not made 3. that we stop harassing – outside adjudicator’s jurisdiction.
Acoustic testing had demonstrated that flooring did not meet the minimum standard (adjudicator had underlined this phrase, bolded the word minimum and in brackets after put the words (emphasis added).
When we asked our neighbour what they intended doing as 6 weeks has now passed, she said that she was waiting for further info from the acoustic engineer and then would be putting a submission to OC for approval???
I don’t believe the OC can overturn any order of the adjudicator – in fact I don’t really think they understand what the adjudicator’s order means.
Any thoughts fellow sufferers would be appreciated. Is it too late to draft a by-law stating that hard surface flooring is not allowed or must be 6 star standard.
Hi affected owner – only too happy – I thought I posted this 2 days ago but cyberspace bugs must have got it. Although there is a lot of advice through flatchat you still feel very much alone wondering what and how to do it.
Not sure how we proceed though.
Dear Dean
I am sure you can draft exclusive use by-laws for work done previously that affected common property – however, if the owner of the ‘work’ is no longer in residence I am not sure how this is covered as I am sure the current owner bought the property in good faith.
If properties are not managed properly from day 1 then you reap or don’t reap the benefits/problems later.
Dear Ktluu
First of all because I think this is what you want to know – we were successful at adjudication. Our noise events did include much thudding, thumping, scraping of furniture, running, dropping of toys – I think the noise was louder in our unit than theirs. They have a 2yr old (almost) who throws bottles out of the cot, pulls things over etc etc.
We went down both roads – ie NTC from OC which they thought was unreasonable – they requested ?professional mediation, so we obliged and personally went down that path too. The OC seem to get cold feet as do most other owners who don’t want to get involved (quite amazing really).
Mediation was not successful so we put in a submission for adjudication – 35 pages including a lengthy noise log which we started almost 2 years ago but early on we were not diligent in keeping this as we were naively hoping that they would understand how noisy it was for us and replace the carpet. We have lived in our unit for 9 years, 7 of which were peaceful with no noise – then came the timber floors. Even though they only walk in bare feet we hear the doof-doof of their footfall all the time – it is relentless. We put in our submission that the noise was invasive, pervasive and loud throughout our unit.
We received the result last week after a wait of over 3 months. We had stat decs from visitors and even a friend who heard the noises through the phone. Originally they wanted us to pay for an acoustic test which we would not as the husband had heard his wife walking in bare feet, so any other noise would be louder than than. However, in the end they did get an acoustic test done and although it met the BCA it did not meet the minimum level of the acoustic engineers requirements – this was a factor in the decision. We went for an order against the by-law for treatment of floors (14 in the SSMA Act). As my earlier post, you must describe how it disturbs you – be emphatic about this. That is what relates to the by-law – the noise through the floorspace must disturb you. Of course, it does but you must describe it – don’t get emotional just stick to the facts. They had asked for an order that we put insulation in our ceiling but the adjudicator denied this order saying that ‘we had not contributed to their noise’. They also wanted an order that we do not harass them but the adjudicator does not have jurisdiction on this – we had visited them twice to complain so I don’t think harassment would stack up.
Hope all this helps. They have been given 2 months to rectify the situation – unfortunately the adjudicator cannot say how they do it, except that ALL the floor must be treated – fingers crossed they replace with carpet.
Could you contact the occupier before you to get a stat dec about the noise – this might be helpful as will the other letters you have – this all supports your side enormously.
Let us know how you are going
Dear Ktluu
I empathise with you as we were in the same position – our EC did issue a NTC but our upstairs noise neighbours said that this was unreasonable (we think the noise was unreasonable) so we also personally went down the mediation, adjudication path as well. It just seems so hard to keep the EC on side – they don’t want to get involved, want to keep ‘happy families’ etc. Mediation was not successful so we put in a submission, included stat decs from visitors etc that they not only heard the noise but were ‘disturbed’ by the noise as that is the crucial factor. We had a lengthy noise log and we also made qualifying statements as to why there were gaps eg on holidays. Their submission which was prepared by a solicitor, was full of lies and more lies but we could do nothing about that. What I think is unfair in this process is that the CTTT/NCAT makes a requirement that all owners receive a copy of the applicant submission which means that the noisy neighbours (the respondents) can nitpick all your points in their submission. In our situation they said we complained all the time about noises (a lie), we were cranky bullies (a lie) we made personal attacks on them (more lies) and they even asked for an order for us to stop harassing them and an order that we put extra insulation in our ceiling (?to stop their noise).
The noise log should show the date, times, type of noise and how it disturbed you – eg woke you up, can’t work on computer or do craft etc. The main think is that you showed how you are ‘disturbed’ – just hearing the noise is not enough. Statement from visitors, neighbours etc has a big bearing as well.
Good luck.
today we received the result of NCAT submission requesting our timber-floor loving go-ahead young couple upstairs neighbours to comply with the by-law. This took over 3 months of nervous waiting but at last we got a favourable result. Yippee!! They have been given until end April to rectify the noise problem so we will expect louder noise levels until then I presume.
We do feel vindicated and were being to feel isolated from other owners as they turn a blind eye and don’t want to get involved.
The adjudication considered our noise log and our wording that the noise was ‘invasive, pervasive and loud throughout our unit’. They did have an acoustic test done (which they originally wanted us to pay for) and this showed that although the floors met BCA it did not meet minimum AAAC level to provide acoustic amenity. We were dismayed – to say the least – by the acoustic engineers comment that although the floor did not meet the minimum recommended requirement, they did not consider this was significant as it was only 2db short. This type of comment I think is made depending on who pays the bill and is not really an independent report.
the adjudicator did comment that the by-law did not stipulate any minimum requirement but we feel that this was, however, taken into account. They had asked for an order that we put insulation in our ceiling (to stop their noise???) but the adjudicator said that we had not contributed to their noise and did not have to do this.
So now we wait – should we expect that they will communicate with us as to how they are going to rectify the situation.