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Interesting …if the decision was 50-50, does that mean no permission or no refusal? I guess it’s the former but it sounds like your friend has very good grounds to take to the mediation.
If the EC wants to ban pets on principle, they need to change their by-laws (and that ain’t going to happen if the EC vote reflects the feeling of of the owners).
Compromise is the key to successful mediation and if your friend offers to allow reasonable conditions to be applied to the permission, that should play well at the CTTT (if it gets that far).If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
The key word here is ‘reasonable’ and that varies from place to place. Insurers can only tell you what they think the potential risk of a certain building in a certain area is.
An apartment on the 10th floor of a high security building probably doesn’t need double deadbolt locks. But a unit in a building that’s easily accessible from the street in a high crime area needs all the help it can get.
It sounds like your unit is OK by the insurers’ standards and that will be enough for the landlord who may be reluctant to pay for additional locks without good reason.
But the other key issue is your peace of mind. Many police stations have crime prevention officers who conduct security audits on homes. Ask them what’s reasonable for this unit.
You can always change the locks at your own expense provided you give the landlord a key within seven days. You will probably need their permission before you start adding additional locks or security devices
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Expenses really should come with receipts and a prior agreement to pay them. An unofficial treasurer paying himself expenses can’t be done without some sort of agreement from the Owners Corp.
An owners corp can agree at an AGM to pay ex gratia payments to EC members retrospectively for work done the previous year. That’s it.
To answer your question, is it legal – the answer is probably not. You could let the new guys sort it out but this will be outside the scope of their normal duties and I wonder how much they’re going to charge.
Is $600 expenses for 13 years of voluntary work really that much? Some accountants charge $50 an hour, rather than a year.
Frankly, bearing in mind that your relationship with your one and only neighbour is in serious strife, I’d be tempted to say that you are prepared to let this go as a gesture of conciliation – it’s a small price to pay to begin repairing your relationships.If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
As long as the minutes of the last meeting go out with the formal notice of the meeting at least seven days before, you are OK. Because yours is a ‘not large’ strata plan, proxies can be present at or just before the meeting. IOn large strata plans (over 100 lots) the proxies have to be given to the secretary at least 24 hours before the meeting.
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Refusal to allow inspection of the strata roll for privacy reasons is total BS and it’s often a smokescreen. Using the ‘privacy’ excuse is not only wrong, it’s often a sign that the property manager either doesn’t know the law or doesn’t want you making contact with the other owners directly (for whatever reason) … or both.
ANY owner is entitled to see documents held by the Owners Corporation or their employees or agents (see quotes from Act below) although the request should be in writing, seven days notice must be given and there will be an inspection fee.
The Secretary of the EC is legally obliged to maintain the strata roll (although that’s often delegated to the Strata Manager) at the very least to establish who is entitled to vote and who needs to get notification of meetings etc.
So you could ask the secretary to allow the inspection of the records or, if there’s a problem with the secretary, you could make the request as an ordinary owner.
By the way, refusal by a managing agent to provide the documents in response to a formal request by the EC carries one of the heftiest fines issued at the CTTT. So make no mistake, this ‘privacy’ nonsense isn’t only wrong – it’s illegal.
This is what the Act says:
22 What are the functions of the secretary of an owners corporation?
The functions of a secretary of an owners corporation include the following:
(c) to maintain the strata roll,
(d) to enable the inspection of documents on behalf of the owners corporation in accordance with section 108
OK, so what does Section 108 say?
108 Inspection of records of owners corporation
(1) Who may inspect records?
An owner, mortgagee or covenant chargee of a lot, or a person authorised by the owner, mortgagee or covenant chargee, may request the owners corporation to allow an inspection to be carried out under this section.(2) Form of request
The request must be in writing and be accompanied by the fee prescribed by the regulations.(3) Items to be made available for inspection
The owners corporation must make the following items available for inspection by the person who makes the request or the person’s agent:(a) the strata roll,
And what does the strata roll include?
98 What must be recorded in the strata roll?
(1) There must be recorded in the strata roll in relation to a particular lot:
(a) the owner’s name and an Australian address for service of notices or the name of the owner’s agent appointed in accordance with Part 3 of Chapter 4 and the agent’s Australian address for service of notices …
In conclusion, if you don’t have the support of the EC secretary, you may have to jump through a few hoops and pay a fee to be allowed to inspect (and photocopy) the strata roll, but you do have the right, even if it”s just as an ordinary owner.
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MattB’s advice is right on the money. But the first thing you need to do, as he says, is make sure you have the numbers. You can’t be the only person who’s embarrassed and appalled by this person so check that you have the support and have a motion added to the agenda of the next EC meeting to vacate the Chair and elect a new chairperson. You would only do this, of course, if you knew who was going to fill the role and who was going to support the move.
By the way, it doesn’t matter how many owners and their proxy votes who got the Chairman elected, it’s one member, one vote on the EC and all it takes is a simple majority to remove the Chir form their office (but not from the committee).
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I know some very clever strata managers but I doubt if any of them would say definitively that dame and water damage was an internal problem, just from looking at pictures.
I would take one last run at them and tell them you want a building consultant to come in and look at the problem and see where it begins. It could be anything from an internal pipe in the wall to a missing roof tile.
If they refuse, take them to Fair Trading and demand that they fulfill their obligations under the strata Act to maintain and repair common property (ie, your wall). You’ll find the appropriate form HERE.
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It sounds like the rules are a an addition to the by-laws and are basically a guide telling you the conditions under which fly-screens are more likely to be allowed. However, unless they are incorporated as part of the by-law they have little standing (although a phrase in the by-law along the lines of the by-law being “subject to rules that the EC may decide from time to time” may cover it).
I think you are right on the money with the the idea of mediation at Fair Trading. I can just about understand the issue of the mid-bar in terms of the look of the building from the outside but it seems to be so minor and nit-picky it will be hard for them to justify in front of an independent arbitrator. You’ll find the appropriate form HERE.
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I’m sure a strata lawyer or consultancy would be happy to do it for you – but it wouldn’t be cheap. There’s also the issue of professional liability to take into consideration.
Or you could just post the proposed new by-laws here and let your fellow flatchatters pick them apart for you.
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Just one small point, I would be very surprised if the coming changes to the Strata Act insisted on EC members having some training in Strata law. It would be a great thing – even if they made it mandatory for office-bearers would be a major step forward – but it probably isn’t going to happen for one very simple reason: 90 percent of strata buildings would have no one volunteering for their ECs.
As one strata manager said to me recently, it’s hard enough to get good people on ECs as it is, making it harder for them to join would be a nightmare.
Personally, in larger buildings I’d make it mandatory to have people with the required training OR have the office-bearers roles delegated to Strata Managers until such times as they have achieved the level of training required. That way you either let the strata managers do their job (advised by the EC) or anyone who wants to take back control of their building can go out and learn how to do it properly.
But, like I said, the chances of that happening are probably slim to negligible, if only because the Fair Trading Minister has said he wants to make Strata law and its application simpler, rather than more complicated. Let’s hope I’m wrong.
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@pinkcarrots said:
I was wondering if I have to allow access through my apartment to the balony for an absailing rigg to be set up to repair a crack on the external wall of the apartment building?Can I say no and get repairs fixed via roof access or street access?
The Act (quoted below) says you must allow access and failure to do so can lead to fines of up to two penalty points (which I think is $220 at the moment). The OC can also go to the CTTT and get an order, if required, to gain access to your property.
OK, that’s the law – here’s the reality. I raised this very issue in my own building recently and the Strata Manager said that while the law is quite clear on this, its operation is cumbersome and complicated and if there’s any other way of gaining access to a property for essential building work, it should be explored.
Some people may be happy to pay the $200 fines and send their lawyers to the CTTT to fight the case, rather than have their lives disrupted.
Assuming you don’t want to waste money, time, emotional energy and the goodwill of your neighbours, it comes down to communicating with the Owners Corp and the Strata Manager and asking them they have explored any other ways of doing this that may be less disruptive to you. When they realise that it’s not as simple as issuing you with a demand, they may think a little more creatively.
But you also need to think about your responsibility to the rest of the community of which you are a part. When you buy into strata you join the Owners Corporation whether or not you want to and that comes with responsibilities as well as rights. But it’s better for everyone – you included – if you step up and do your bit, when required. So talk to the EC and the Strata Manager and try to find a compromise if you possibly can. And if not, make sure you have it in writing that the work will be done quickly and efficiently, your home is inspected before and after for any damage, and that there is an agreement in place to repair or repaint as required without delay or discussion. Then everybody can get on with their lives and you don’t have tha hassle of turning up at the CTTT every other week to fight for the right to say no.
One other thing, if you obstruct essential work and the delays cause further damage to the building, you might (and I stress might) be liable to be sued for the damage caused to the building due to your actions.
All in all, it’s better to sit down and talk to your EC – the law is on their side but time is on yours. This is what the Act says:
65Can an owners corporation enter property in order to carry out work?
(1) An owners corporation may, by its agents, employees or contractors, enter on any part of the parcel for the purpose of carrying out the following work:
(a) work required to be carried out by the owners corporation in accordance with this Act,
(b) work required to be carried out by the owners corporation by a notice served on it by a public authority,
(c) work required to be carried out by the owners corporation by an order under this Act.
(2) An owners corporation may, by its agents, employees or contractors, enter on any part of the parcel for the purpose of determining whether any work is required to be carried out by the owners corporation in accordance with this Act.
(3) In an emergency, the owners corporation may enter any part of the parcel for those purposes at any time.
(4) In a case that is not an emergency, the owners corporation, may enter any part of the parcel for those purposes with the consent of any occupier of that part of the parcel or, if the occupier does not consent, in accordance with an order of an Adjudicator under section 145.
(5) A person must not obstruct or hinder an owners corporation in the exercise of its functions under this section.
Maximum penalty: 2 penalty units.
(6) An owners corporation is liable for any damage to a lot or any of its contents caused by or arising out of the carrying out of any work, or the exercise of a power of entry, referred to in this section unless the damage arose because the owners corporation was obstructed or hindered.
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This question has certainly kicked off a ferocious debate in the Herald’s online pages HERE. There’s no simple answer to this issue – and that’s just another part of the problem – but it does seem, judging by some responses, that Housing NSW may dumping problem tenants in private strata blocks, the biggest ‘too-hard basket of them all’. They are either oblivious to or just don’t care about the fact that strata requires a level of cooperation for the system to work and are happy just to have the tenants off the books, for a while, at least.
This is by no means all Housing NSW tenants. Many of them will be glad of the chance to live normal lives, away from the quicksand of poverty that pervades some of the massive ghettos of deprivation in some of our cities. Others are clearly ill-equipped to cope – or have no interest in doing so – in communities where mutual respect between neighbours is the oil that keeps the machine working. Having said that, it’s just as likely to be individual case officers rather than departmental policy. There are lazy and ignorant people in all walks of life and I’m sure Housing NSW is no exception.
I think there is another element here and that’s the issue of people with mental health problems – and they can be owners as well as tenants. Strata systems just aren’t equipped to cope with disruptive and abusive people who often don’t have much control over their own behaviour.
Housing NSW still haven’t responded to my emails. I will try again today.
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Are you sure you want to buy this patch of common property or would an exclusive use by-law (that could still involve a payment but wouldn’t require a redistribution of Unit Entitlements) not be a simpler way to go?
In any case, you only require 75 percent of those voting at a general meeting to be in favour so I wouldn’t worry about those who won’t be there – unless someone harvests their proxies specifically to stymie your plans.
The by-law required to either sell you the lot or give you exclusive use of it will have significant legal implications so your next call really should be to an experienced strata lawyer who will also answer your questions about delaying the application for a DA.
By the way, I wouldn’t think that will be an obstacle in itself, provided the Owners Corp is in favour of your plans. But don’t assume their agreement to sell or lease you the CP represents approval to do what you are planning – that should probably be dealt with separately.If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
@justsaying said:
May I suggest that calling OFT is usually very worthwhile particularly in recent months. I do recommend that you avail yourself of the Strata Act online before making this call. This may avoid the costly hourly rate and expense of a strata lawyer. Personally, I have spent thousands of dollars using “expert strata advice” to no avail. However, it was OFT guidance who gave clear advice and the cost…. A phone call.Hmmm. Depends on the “expert” and it very much depends on who’s on the other end of the phone at Fair trading. In the meantime, having a look at the strata Act can do no harm and you will find it online HERE.
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It sounds like you are leaning twards dividing common property up and adding it to the individual lots. If this is the case, I would warn against it as it is legally complicated and there are easier ways of doing this.
We had a similar issue in our building and we erected storage cages then rented them out to the owners on a first come, first served basis (there weren’t enough spaces for everyone). In your case the owners collectively own the space anyway but the value is what they would be prepared to pay for the cage rather than the space).
I would find out how much it would cost to create individual storage cages for each apartment and then rent them out to owners to cover the cost of the caging. Allocate cages to owners by ballot and if they don’t want to pay, then offer them to those who want extra storage.
Once a year (at the AGM, for instance), you can ask the owners who have passed on the storage if they want to take it up. Otherwise it gets let out to other owners on a first in best dressed basis.
I think the OC needs to keep control of these storage spaces even if owners are guaranteed use of the cages, one way or another. The rent from them can go back into funds to help with maintenance and management.
As far as an absolute value goes, call around and ask what commercial storage firms charge per cubic meter in your area and then knock a bit off that. But there’s no absolute figure because storage space is only valuable to those who need it. It really comes down to what your residents are prepared to pay and how much more attractive the storage makes your apartments to potential buyers and tenants.
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