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A quick answer to Jimmy before I spend some time reading Lady Penelope’s newest advice.
Four of the 14 apartments have been sold, however three of these have a Lot Entitlement of 7% and one has 6%. The developer has one for his own use with a LE of 15% and the rest are still for sale. This means that only 27% of the LE are sold as the original owner’s LE is not counted according to the SSMA 2015. Once another apartment is sold then we will be able to insist on an AGM being held.
we have not given up on going to NCAT to have a Strata Manager appointed by the Tribunal, however, we have to have a letter from a SM who is prepared to do the job and we can’t find one as this Rogue has scared them all off. We are waiting to hear from one SMGroup who are considering whether they will do it and if so we will go to the Tribunal with evidence that this Strata Scheme is dysfunctional and request that a SM is appointed. If we had not had to find a willing SM we would have been to the Tribunal some time ago.
You have been very helpful through all our troubles Jimmy and it is very much appreciated.
Thank you Lady Penelope. We are South of Sydney so not in the Hunter nor the Sydney water authorities . I have read a lot of the information on both the Hunter and the Sydney sites and often think If only…..
however as the Hunter booklet says ” Multi-level strata developments are excluded from the individual metering process due to accessibility issues”
That is us. We are therefore unable to look at retro filling individual meters to be read by the water authority and have consulted the plumbing company which did the original plumbing of the building and the answer is that we are stuck with a single meter but can have sub meters to enable us to pay the developer , and eventually the OC when formed, for the mains water that we consume. There is no way of separating the mains water from the tank water consumed through the tank supply line to each apartment so if we were to have this supply metered and we paid for water in accordance with that meter as well as the mains meter, we would therefore be paying the developer for tank water.
Thanks for your fast response.
Lady Penelope, on 13/3/17 you said ” It would be far more accurate to leave the water bill out of the levy assessment at this early stage and instead have the water bill divided according to the unit entitlement whenever the water bill comes in i.e. a separate bill. The owners should be given a copy of the scheme’s bill to enable them to verify that the amount charged to them is correct. This would be a more efficient and responsive way to ‘top up’ the Admin Fund.”
The owners in our Strata Scheme would be happy to do this, however, this developer believes that we should each pay for the water by dividing the account by the number of occupied apartments . As only two apartments had been sold in 2015 and 3/4 of 2016, he stated we owed him 1/3 of the water Accounts ( he occupies one apartment part time and only our apartment and one other had been sold). After August 2016 he claims we owe him 1/5 of the accounts as two more apartments had sold.
In terms of topping up the fund I am concerned that whilst we pay a reasonable levy $2400 pa, what is this for as we have never been given a budget. Does this mean that when the electricity bill for the common property is received, we pay our LE % of that, same for insurance , same for all other costs. The question is , if we have to pay extra money on top of our levy, what is the point of paying a levy in the first place?
Yes Sir Humphrey and Lady Penelope , I agree that individual meters are much better for water in a Strata Scheme, for environmental and equity issues. However, this developer is one of a minority here on the coast who determined not to install individual meters but chose to just have one meter for the total scheme which was built in 2014/2015. The Strata Managers we have spoken to have been very surprised that he did not install individual meters.
Just to be clear :
Each apartment has two seperate water supplies. The first is for mains water which is used for everything other than toilet, cold washing machine tap and balcony tap. The second supply is from the tanks which is used for toilet, cold washing machine tap and balcony tap as required by the Development Approval ( DA). When the tanks are almost empty the tank water feed is replaced by mains supply until the tank level increases to an operating level.
The four current apartment owners are happy to pay for the installation of a meter on the mains supply to their apartment, and pay for the water they consume from this supply. The developer will still only receive one account from the water authority ( the Council). The common property of breezeways, lawns, water features and gardens etc. will not be metered separately.
The developer also wants each apartment owner to pay for a seperate meter on the tank supply. ( 2 meters in each apartment). We do not see the need to meter the tank supply as the usage of mains water in the tank supply system is seasonal . Mains water only cuts in when there is insufficient rainfall which in this part of the world is usually a couple of months in the summer period.
We would all, of course, pay the Lot Entitlement ( LE) amount for the balance of the water account after we have all paid the amount of our mains water usage.
So my questions are: Should we read the main meter ourselves and deposit what we think is our LE amount to contribute to the water account; and
What is your view of having two meters in each apartment, one to measure the mains water supply and the other to measure the tank and occasional mains supply combined?
Our latest issue about water in our 14 lot Strata Scheme is that 1. Our developer/ original owner wants each lot owner ( only 4 out of 14 units are sold) to pay for 2 water meters for their property, one for the mains supply and the second for the tank water as when the tanks run dry, the mains water kicks in. 2. The developer/ original owner will not provide us with a copy of the water useage invoice as he says we have to pay 1/5 of the water rather than our 7% lot entitlement. As we have told him we will only pay our correct % he will not allow us to see the account and the water authority will not provide same as they say it is a privacy issue and although they know we live here ( we are individually rated ) the water usage account is in the initial owner/ developers name.
Office of Fair Trading delivered a seminar on Strata here last week but the presenter advised that she knew nothing about Schemes during the initial phase.
My questions are:
1. should we read the mains meter ourselves each quarter and deposit our % of our estimate of what the account would be, to the developers bank account?
2. He has stopped requesting that we pay him our quarterly levy so should we just continue to pay it into his account as we have been doing for all previous contributions?
He will not communicate with us.
Thank you Jimmy,
looked everwhere in our files and can’t find the email telling us that the water use is contained in the levy. I would have thought that he should have said what is NOT in it as I am now worried about lots of other costs eg electricity for common property, lawn mowing, fire service etc. he did not ever give us a budget for how he worked out the quarterly levy.
however, given the newest information I think that we will now pay him 7% of the water accounts less the amount we paid him when he got that very large bill in March 2016.
This will ensure that there can be absolutely no question about whether or not we owe him money.
in the meantime I will keep looking for his email where he said the levy contains water use.
many thanks.
Lady Penelope, I’m absolutely flabbergasted now! Up until this point we have believed that we were doing the right thing with our levies and were not required to pay additional charges for water. Even the most recent link you sent me regarding water payments stated this .
“the owners corporation receives and pays a quarterly bill for all water consumed in the complex. This is paid from the administrative fund, and means that owners are paying for water consumption through their levies – based on unit entitlement”
from https://greenstrata.com.au
we have an email from the developer that states that the levy includes water .
im now so confused as your response appears to be very different from my previous ones.
However, I will now go to the Council and obtain all water accounts since we moved in and pay our 7% just to be certain that we have done the right thing.
Lady Penelope. P.S. I apologise for the duplicate question. It was unintended.
The first AGM has not been held and won’t be until one more apartment in the complex is sold.
Thank you Lady Penelope. We are not located in the Sydney Water catchment and there is no requirement for individual meters on the South Coast NSW ( Eurobodalla Shire Council). The apartments were completed in 2015. We have checked the laws with the water authority and one meter for the complex complies with its requirements.
The other information was basically background .
The water bills received are charged by the Council to the Owners Corporation. This was not my question as I had received in depth information from Jimmy on this site that we were not oprequired to contribute to the water use as the cost should have been included in the levy which should have been built on the costs of operating the complex. Now I am confused.
My question was basically if the initial owner has not been paying his own levies for his 9 vacant apartment and the one he lives in part time, whilst at the same time levying the other purchasers , does this make him ineligible to vote at the first AGM.
The original owner/ developer of out 14 unit Strata complex in country nsw still owns 10 of the apartments. He has been levying us a regular contribution of $600 per quarter since the beginning of 2016. Prior to that ( mid 2015 when the first apartment was purchased) he met all costs himself . Once he introduced the levy, he also advised us ( ourselves and another purchaser) that we were to pay our lot entitlements ( 7% each) of the Strata Insurance which we have done each year.
Since then two more apartments have sold and he is charging them $675 each quarter plus the cost of 30 kilolitres of water at the Council rate each quarter. ( one has a 6% lot entitlement and the other has 7% entitlement).
what we now know is that this developer, while collecting levies from the owners of 4 of the 14 apartments is NOT paying his own levies and there are no bank accounts or seperate books for the accounts. He is telling us that because we have not paid 1/3 of the water accounts ( only 1 meter with account sent to the Owners Corporation) then we are ineligible to vote when the first AGM occurs but he has not paid any levies for his own apartments , even though he must be paying the balance of the operational costs.
does this mean he is ineligible to vote at the AGMI absolutely agree with Julio ( above). Many of our significant issues could be solved with a nice strongly worded letter from a solicitor . We attempted to arrange this and were amazed at what it would cost us. Like Julio we are also pensioners and severely limited financially so we’re unable to engage the Strata solicitors. Accessibility depends on your ability to engage expertise it seems and in the meantime we have to live with the stress of knowing that any day an abusive email will be circulated to the other three owners in this 14 unit Strata Scheme accusing us of a range of things like harrassing his wife ( when we pass her on the stairs) trespassing ( when we put a letter under his door asking to inspect the records in accordance with the Act) and the old one about owing him over $1000 for water when he chose to install just a single meter and we have paid our contributions on the day they are due.
I hope a good Strata legal firm reads your request Julio and offers to do some pro bono work for you to assist you in this issue. Keep us informed. Good luck.
The original owner/ developer of out 14 unit Strata complex in country nsw still owns 10 of the apartments. He has been levying us a regular contribution of $600 per quarter since the beginning of 2016. Prior to that ( mid 2015 when the first apartment was purchased) he met all costs himself . Once he introduced the levy, he also advised us ( ourselves and another purchaser) that we were to pay our lot entitlements ( 7% each) of the Strata Insurance which we have done each year.
Since then two more apartments have sold and he is charging them $675 each quarter plus the cost of 30 kilolitres of water at the Council rate each quarter. ( one has a 6% lot entitlement and the other has 7% entitlement).
what we now know is that this developer, while collecting levies from the owners of 4 of the 14 apartments is NOT paying his own levies and there are no bank accounts or seperate books for the accounts. He is telling us that because we have not paid 1/3 of the water accounts ( only 1 meter with account sent to the Owners Corporation) then we are ineligible to vote when the first AGM occurs but he has not paid any levies for his own apartments , even though he must be paying the balance of the operational costs.
does this mean he is ineligible to vote at the AGM
Bullies always threaten and many people are scared of these legal threats. I always think that if your decision was made in a legally correct way ie in accordance with the Act then the EC should advise the person that they will see him/her in Court. They are often just idle threats. It’s usually a tactic to try and scare the EC and looks like it has worked. Can’t you talk to them about risk management eg manage the risk. Check to make sure that the decision was made correctly and the meeting was in accordance with the Act, then get the name of a good Strata solicitor and have the tree taken out . They can then wait for the summons to court but it likely will never come. I still have my L plates on with Strata but I do know and experience how bullies operate in Strata to get their own way, legal action idle threats are usually one of their tactics.
I had a call from the strata manager just now to tell me that they have decided not to work for our developer as her company would not comply with the conditions that he imposed.
I don’t have the details but she said she wouldn’t even take it on if the Tribunal appointed them. She was very apologetic but she just said she did not believe they could do it with him being involved.
Not sure where we go now.This is great information Jimmy. We will sit down now and develop some formal responses to his recent insulting emails and will send to him in hard copy to his mail box. Thank you so much for your support and advice. Have a happy new year and I will keep Flat Chat members updated on this developer’s actions in 2017.
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