[timSP]

Even if the committee source their own insurance quotations, How can we stop the agent from billing the OC for the “lost commission” if this is written into the management agreement?

Is there any thing in the legislation currently that can over-ride or prevent this?

Management agreement has been in place for more than 2 years. NSW.

 

 

[timSP]

Shortcrust wrote:

TimSP, I suggest you call ncat not FT and ask them how to compel the strata mgr to circulate your ncat application to all lot owners.

Ask ncat what can be done about the strata mgr and OC ignoring their obligations under the SSM Act in this regard.

Thanks @shortcrust.  having dealt with NCAT numerous times, they aren’t in the habit of giving out advice or legal advice freely!  I have found FT more giving and helpful (really depends who you get on the phone!) , but, can only quote from the legislation.

[timSP]

hi,

It seems there’s been no replies to this question!

I have same issue. The Strata Manager (SM) did NOT inform all the lot owners that a lot owner had applied for an NCAT hearing last year.

Another NCAT hearing has been lodged and accepted last week, and a directions hearing date has been slated for the new year.

It seems that it is in fact a requirement under the Strata Schemes Management Act (SMAA) that the Owners Corporation (OC) be required to inform lot owners of any action, but I cannot seem to find anything specific in the SSMA

Reading the Far Trading NSW website:

https://ncat.nsw.gov.au/case-types/housing-and-property/strata-and-community-living/strata-schemes.html#:~:text=In%20strata%20and%20community%20schemes%20cases%2C%20NCAT%20sends%20a%20copy,association%20except%20for%20penalty%20applications.

What happens next

Strata and community schemes cases are first listed for directions. Check the notice of hearing from NCAT and follow the instructions provided. If your case is not resolved at the first hearing it may be listed for a contested hearing on a later date.

Read the hearing preparation checklist to prepare for your hearing. 

In strata and community schemes cases, NCAT sends a copy of the application to the parties and to the owners corporation. The owners corporation is required to give a copy of the application to all lot owners or members of the association except for penalty applications.

Why question is firstly, what are the timeframes in which the OC are required to inform lot owners about an NCAT application, and secondly, what penalties can be issued, and are they issued to the SM, or the OC? and how can this complaint be made?

[timSP]

thanks @Jimmy-T

Request-was sent to the managing agent.

No response has been received, despite numerous follow up emails.

Has anyone got any Suggestions for what would be the Next step? mediation through fair Trading?

[timSP]

maybe it was just giving a ‘heads up’ in case it turns out to be the case, so they can at least say ‘they gave you prior warning’?

[timSP]

as the AGM which is to be held via pre meeting paper vote, there No actual in person meeting.

Question:

Are the Voting forms post vote required to be made available for lot owners to view, so that the votes can be verified?
Are they considered “records of the plan”?
How can the voting be verified, including any proxy votes?

I know that one suggestion will be “just request a strata search”, but due to past experiences the strata manager  will most likely ensure that it will be extremely difficult for the voting to be verified.

[timSP]

@Strata-Answers

Just reading through the posts…timSP says the AGM is a ...”paper online vote”... so presumably this is not just a meeting decided by pre-meeting voting by email / mail etc but an actual ONLINE  meeting.

Just to clarify, there will be NO physical meeting, its “pre-meeting paper vote”. (even though a date and time is specified as the strata managers offices) but I say this is just a formality needed to include to say a “meeting” was held.

This has been the case for the last 3 years AGM, (apart from one EGM held via zoom). So it CAN be held by zoom, but SC choose this form so no discussions or questions can be asked, PLUS the retain their postions on the committee. Brilliant isnt it?!!!

[timSP]

 

Thanks @Jimmy-T

If the committee members are already playing fast and loose with the law, I would expect them to go to the barricades on this too.  Apply for mediation at Fair Trading, seek an interim order and then see what falls out when you shake them up.

Yes Good idea I will do that. Committee and strata manager extremely belligerent and are doing whatever they please, whether legal or not. They are waiting for owners to chase them in court, NCAT or fair trading, which just cost lot owners more money.

 

 

[timSP]

Thanks @jimmyt53 @StrataChair for your responses.

 

@StrataChair

So decide your timing carefully. If there is a physical/electronic meeting at a particular time and place (as there needs to be to elect a committee) you could simply ensure you are there, nominate orally and point out that any pre-meeting electronic votes for the committee are invalid per the Regulation.

Regarding your suggestion above, Just to clarify, there will be no physical meeting, its paper vote online. (even though a date and time is specified as the strata managers offices) but I say this is just a formality needed to include to say a “meeting” was held.

@jimmyt53

Would it be worth taking pre-emptive action at NCAT via a complaint and interim order?

Yes good idea. Although, it the motions regarding the committee election are indeed ruled null and void, I wonder does the committee retain their positions?

We continually have this issue where the incumbent committee hold AGM meetings via electronic paper vote so as to NOT to hold a committee election and therefor retain their positions year on year. Not to mention the fact that our strata plan never has an opportunity to discuss matter relating to the running of out plan. Extremely infuriating!

 

[timSP]

Thankyou @jimmyt53, @scotlandx.

 

I was concerned that nominations need to be provided on the agenda, and hence before the agenda was sent out. We dont know when the next AGM is to be held so that is good to hear.

[timSP]

Jimmy-T @JT / moderater. – Apologies! Yes correct, I thought I redacted the names, but I’ve obviously missed where they appeared elsewhere. Thank you redacting and allowing the post. Much appreciated.

[timSP]

Thank TrulEConcerned Jimmy-T kaindub

As part of a current NCAT matter (against the committee)  I applied to add the SM/s to as respondents, but it was refused for a number of reasons (below in italics), but it makes sense as per what’s been outlined previously.

1 The applicant’s application to join XXXXX and XXXXX as respondents to
the proceedings is refused.
Reasons:
a). The applicant seeks orders to remove members of the strata committee. The applicant
also seeks orders against the Owners Corporation.
b). [Name Redacted] is the Licensee in charge of the strata management and one of the
strata managers assigned to the plan. No orders are being sought against him personally,
and thereby, there is no basis on which to join that person individually as a respondent to the
proceedings.
c). It appears that [2nd name redacted] is also one of the employed strata managers assigned to
the plan. The applicant seeks a general order that she declare any past or current conflicts
of interests to the Owners Corporation. It is unclear on what basis the applicant can seek
such an order which would only involve [2nd name redacted]and the Owners Corporation directly,
and especially when the Owners Corporation is not seeking any such order. The applicant
has failed to demonstrate any case on which he can seek such orders personally against an
employee of the strata management company, and thereby, there is no basis on which to join
that person individually as a respondent to the proceedings.

I also made a complaint with FT for a number of issues I had with the SM,

1. SM Stated that lot owners were NOT permitted to contact the SM, only contact is to be made via SC.
2.  Failing to declare a conflict of interest with one of the senior strata managers who recommended that a close friend/partner quote for major capital works (and of course they got the contract!) and when queried refused to admit any conflict, in fact completely refute that there was ANY connection between the two!
3. Failing to add lot owners nominations on the AGM agenda

FT found that the SM had ‘potentially’ breached the SSMA for point 3, points 2 not enough evidence was produced (at this time) and point 1 the contract indicated this) according to FT, but I refuted it, it was clear whether or not lot owners  were not permitted to contact SM, it only said that the SC will nominated a person to communicate with the SM.

It was like pulling teeth getting FT to admit that there was at least SOME potential breach of the SSMA. What’s even more frustrating is that the SM is a very senior member of REINSW! so there you go….

Its interesting you say TrulEConcerned that the strata manager resigned in your case… I wish were that lucky!

JT: I redacted those names – I’m sure it wasn’t intentional but we can’t allow the Forum to become an arena for personal accusations and finger-pointing.

[timSP]

Thank you to all that responded. Apologies for not responding earlier.

TrulEConcerned 

The Hood

Jimmy-T and others.

Some great insights and information there.

Update: the OC applied to have legal representation at the hearing.

Tribunal ruling:

The application for legal representation is refused

Reasons:

The application seeks a range of orders and raises a large number of allegations and the factual issues are
not complicated and the Respondents should be able to represent themselves.

The Tribunal cannot prevent the Respondents from seeking legal assistance in the preparation of their
evidence and submissions. The Respondents may review their application for representation if the
subsequent conduct of the case by the Applicant changes the circumstances sufficiently to warrant such a
further application.

This was very welcome news. The application (including reasons for) was prepared by a solicitor.

What was incredible was that one of the reasons was that the strata manager does not understand strata law, even though they proport to be highly proficient in strata with over 25 years experience as well as being a senior member of REINSW! Apparently this strata manger was more than capable of representing the OC in previous NCAT hearings.

Although this means that the OC and individual strata committee members can still obtain their own legal advice to prepare documents or submissions, and it seems they can still use OC funds to pay for this, as long as it is not above a threshold amount that requires OC approval.

 

[Author]

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