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  • #77456
    Bristte
    Flatchatter

      Context:  ACT B-class development, ten units.

      At the recent AGM at the end of discussion about an alteration and amendments motion (defeated), the owner in question claimed that their valuer had asserted that two units were not paying their way because their Unit Entitlements were too low.  No documentation of this was provided.  The minutes have written this up pretty much as claimed, including the suggestion that the Executive (Strata) Committee should fix this, or words to that effect.

      At least some of this is clearly wrong as under the ACT Unit Titles Act the EC cannot change UEs on their own, it requires a special resolution from the OC, and as I read the Act, it would need to be based on a revaluation of all units, to enable the relativities to be recalculated.

      But my question is, how common is it for owners corporations to change UEs and when / why would they do this?  In our complex the issue seems to be alive because of the defeated alterations motion.  But surely one does not change UEs on a whim?  Surely there has to be a reason?  The implied reason in this case seems to be that they were incorrectly set in the first place, but there’s no evidence of that, and I would not have thought that that was a sufficient reason.  In what sort of situations would an OC seek to change UEs?

    Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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    • #77501
      citychic
      Flatchatter

        <!–more–>Im very interested in this post. I have 13/100 in a complex of 10.  8 are single level villas with 7 of them holding 9/100 each and 2 are townhouses holding 12/100 each.  Mine has 3 bdrms and the 9 have 2 bdrms.

        All premises have varying square meterage. The 2 townhouses have the largest square meterage and the largest footprint yet hold 12/100 each.

        I think they were initially rated with mine given the highest UE based solely on number of bdrms highest then townhouses then 2 bdrms.  I do not have the largest living space even with the 3rd bdrm.

        It will be an unpopular move to upset the status quo, but How do I go about getting a change to UE’s to reflect the differences in square meterage in each Of the 10 Units in the complex which would be a fairer distribution of levies. ?

        I welcome your Comments /suggestions from flatchatters who may have  encountered similar situation or pros and cons.

         

        #77491
        kaindub
        Flatchatter

          I can only comment from a NSW perspective, but I think ACT would be similar.

          It would require the consent of all owners to such a proposal. You can bet that any lot thst potentially faces higher levies is going to vote against the proposal.

          Anecdotally there are many strata that have UEs somewhat out of whack.

          This particularly applies to older strata, where more value was placed on lots closer to the ground ( less steps) to walk, whereas today lots on higher levels are more valued especially if they have a view.

          Its quite expensive to redo UEs so there would need to be a very good reason to do so.

          #77504
          citychic
          Flatchatter

            I have a 3 bdrm single level villa with  13/100 UE in a complex of 10. There are 2 townhouses who each have 12/100 UE and the largest square meterage and Biggest footprint. There are 7 x 2bdrm single level villas of varying square meterage each  with 9/100 UE.

            I do not have the largest square meterage despite having the rating of 13/100.  This affords me nothing other than the highest fees.

            I believe the unit entitlements were set incorrectly when the strata plan was initially set up forty years ago.

            Im interested in any comments or suggestions /ideas about UE’s where in a complex of 10 every premise has different square meterage and I think should be re surveyed to reflect living space for levies.

            I welcome any flatchatters ideas/suggestions/recommendations.

            #77512
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              It would require the consent of all owners to such a proposal.

              As you say, that would be unlikely if not impossible to achieve – why would the person who benefits from this inequality wnat to change?  You can’t get turkeys to vote for Christmas.

              However, there is a legal procedure but it would require presenting a compelling argument which would include surveying all the apartments – to which Mr Turkey would also object – and then hiring property lawyers to argue your case.

              Then you would have to calculate to potential benefit versus the cost saving and most people would say it wasn’t worth the money or the hassle.

              The only occasions on which I have heard of this being a cost-efficient exercise was where the developer had set the UEs for commercial premises on the ground floor at ludicrously low levels to attract purchasers.  The inequity was so obvious that it was hard for the shop owners to argue against the case.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #77522
              Bristte
              Flatchatter
              Chat-starter

                In the ACT it requires a special resolution, I think the NSW term is a by-law.  A special resolution means that no more than 25% of votes are cast against, which in a complex of ten units means no more than two votes against.  It’s possible that there are only two losers, but unlikely.

                #77526
                Sir Humphrey
                Strataguru

                  I have seen an example where a few owners in a class B ACT development were pushing for a reallocation of unit entitlements due the inequity they perceived as resulting from some unit having been extended (within their unit area) while others had not been extended. Several ECs looked into it diligently at various times and always concluded that even a very substantial alteration was unlikely to make such a difference to the allocation of unit entitlements as to make it worth the expense and bother.

                  The bother involved was substantial. Not only did it require a special resolution, but also various steps had to be performed within tight time frames. Eg. One would have to have the OC agree to pay for a comprehensive valuation, which would be needed before the special resolution to reallocate in line with that valuation, without any guarantee of benefit or success, and then the valuation could not be more that some number of months old and still be used for the reallocation. If it took longer, the multi-step process would have to start again.

                  Note that the valuation for this purpose is not the same as the usual valuation for insurance purposes.

                  There was more to it, but that is the gist – very complicated, multi-step, expensive and potentially divisive without a guarantee of success for an only marginal potential improvement in fairness and equity.

                  #77529
                  Bristte
                  Flatchatter
                  Chat-starter

                    Thanks Sir Humphrey, that’s very helpful, esp being specific to the ACT.  Do you have a reference for “the valuation could not be more that some number of months old and still be used for the reallocation”?  Haven’t seen that in the Act?  What I have seen is that the special resolution must be not more than three months before the application.

                    Also, how much of this could the Executive (Strata) Committee do on their own?  Could the EC commission the comprehensive valuation without reference to the full OC?

                    p.s.  In relation to “Note that the valuation for this purpose is not the same as the usual valuation for insurance purposes”, what sort of valuation are we talking about?  The Act refers to “the improved value of each unit relative to each other unit”.  Are we talking about something that is formulaic, based one the square metres of the unit and the building, or something that looks more broadly at value?

                    In researching this, I found one strata managing company’s website with the following statement: “The allocation is typically based on various factors such as the size, location, and features of each lot. Larger or more strategically positioned lots may have a higher Unit Entitlement.”  Does this sound right to you?  It doesn’t sound formulaic to me, and is more in keeping with my interpretation of “improved value”.

                    #77534
                    Sir Humphrey
                    Strataguru

                      …Do you have a reference for “the valuation could not be more that some number of months old and still be used for the reallocation”? Haven’t seen that in the Act? What I have seen is that the special resolution must be not more than three months before the application.

                      From hazy memory (there was a lot of back and forth), I might be remembering the special resolution time frame. We came to the conclusion that we would need people to agree in principle with really knowing the effect because we would need agreement and cooperation to do the valuation, which would include a budget allocation for the valuation.

                      Only when we had the valuation, could we have put a motion at a second meeting to reallocate unit entitlements according to a new schedule based on that valuation. Otherwise, how could we expect to get a special resolution passed for a change of unknown effect?

                      Also, how much of this could the Executive (Strata) Committee do on their own? Could the EC commission the comprehensive valuation without reference to the full OC?

                      Not much, I think. The valuation would be a non-trivial expense so it would need to have been included in an OC-approved budget. Also, you would probably need the cooperation of all members to have access to all units, or at least more of them than you would need for an insurance valuation.

                      p.s. In relation to “Note that the valuation for this purpose is not the same as the usual valuation for insurance purposes”, what sort of valuation are we talking about? The Act refers to “the improved value of each unit relative to each other unit”.

                      A valuation for insurance purposes is simpler and cheaper. It is really about just the cost to rebuild, which is a completely different question from the relative sale values of the units. Eg. Two identical units might cost exactly the same to rebuild if they burned down but one might be worth more than the other due to a more desirable location eg. on elevated ground away from the street next to a park vs on a noisy street corner.

                       

                      In researching this, I found one strata managing company’s website with the following statement: “The allocation is typically based on various factors such as the size, location, and features of each lot. Larger or more strategically positioned lots may have a higher Unit Entitlement.” Does this sound right to you? It doesn’t sound formulaic to me, and is more in keeping with my interpretation of “improved value”.

                       

                      That sounds right. Where I am, we have units with the same floor plan but different UEs due to location and we have units in similar location and with same floor area but different plans, and the plans of one style were valued more highly than the other style.

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