Flat Chat Strata Forum Common Property Current Page

  • This topic has 16 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 1 year ago by .
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  • #70387
    SteveB00
    Flatchatter

      I own a unit in an art deco building of 30+ units in NSW. The OC intends fully rewiring the building from, and including, the connection to the grid. (This alone is $50K.) After then replacing all the unmetered wiring, the OC intends to move all the distribution boards from communal cupboards on each level and into each unit, running a submain from each electricity meter into the unit.

      Can they do this? Is this wiring common property? If it is common property, does the fact that each submain and distribution board services only one unit make it the owners’ responsibility?

      If the OC does have the right to run a submain to each unit, do they have the right to *enter* the unit (versus perhaps terminating it at an outside wall of the unit) and to install a distribution board *inside* the unit. Would an owner be within their rights to decline?

      • This topic was modified 1 year ago by .
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    • #70406
      Sir Humphrey
      Strataguru

        This sounds like the best and most practical way to upgrade the wiring. A modern distribution board in each unit can be small and unobtrusive. I can’t see any reasonable grounds to object.

        #70407
        SteveB00
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Thanks for the reply. I agree that having an electrical distribution board (DB) in each unit is a good solution, but I’m questioning the OC’s right to impose it. Reasonable grounds to object might be that everything works fine the way it is and there’s no need to spend money fixing what isn’t broken. Or it might be that there’s no convenient place for a DB inside a tiny 1-bedroom unit. Or it might be that, like me, you would like to move your DB into your unit, but at a time and cost that suits you.

          I recently asked the OC to repair some faulty wiring in my ceiling on the grounds that it was common property. The OC’s position was that wiring that serves only one unit is the responsibility of the unit owner. Now they propose to use OC funds to upgrade 30+ electrical circuits that each only service one unit. If they can do that, what gives them the right to refuse to fix other common property wiring?

          I would actually like move my DB into my unit sooner rather than later and not be hamstrung by the process the OC will have to go through to get this approved — if indeed it is approved.

          So my question is still “whose responsibility is the wiring from the electricity meter to the unit?” Can the OC choose to upgrade it, moving the DB in the process (and can they force the unit owner to have the DB inside their unit)? Or do these choices lie with each owner?

          Thanks again.

          • This reply was modified 1 year ago by .
          #70413
          chesswood
          Flatchatter

            In a unit, wiring IN the ceiling will be common property. The OC is required to maintain the common property. That includes updates for safety or extra capacity needed because more people are fitting aircond and/or EV chargers etc. You can’t decline. And the OC has a right of entry to your unit for the purpose of maintaining common property although not for the purpose of stealing your valuables.

            #70423
            Jimmy-T
            Keymaster

              You can’t decline. And the OC has a right of entry to your unit for the purpose of maintaining common property although not for the purpose of stealing your valuables.

              If an owner refuses entry, the OC can seek orders granting them entry from NCAT.  They can’t just barge in.  If the owner still refuses entry in defiance of NCAT orders, then they are in breach of Tribunal orders and can be fined.

              The OC or its employees can’t force their way into a unit unless it is a genuine emergency where personal safety or damage to property is immediately at risk.

              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
              #70437
              Sir Humphrey
              Strataguru

                If yours is “a tiny 1-bedroom unit” and others are larger, your unit entitlements are likely to be less than others. If the owners corporation does the block-wide wiring upgrade, you will pay a smaller fraction of the cost compared with others, in proportion to unit entitlements. The real cost might be rather more similar from one unit to another, regardless of size. So, you might be better off going in with everyone else than doing it separately later. And that is before even considering economies of scale.

                #70443
                SteveB00
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  In a unit, wiring IN the ceiling will be common property. The OC is required to maintain the common property.

                  The OC refused to repair the wiring in my ceiling on the grounds that it services just my unit and isn’t “common infrastructure”.

                  #70445
                  Jimmy-T
                  Keymaster

                    Fair Trading’s much-quoted “Who’s responsible …?” document is ambiguous on this as it says that wiring in a ceiling is common property but wiring in a wall that services only one unit isn’t.  Complicating the issue is that many apartments have false or dropped ceilings which, according to my block’s lawyers, are technically a wall.

                    So I would say that if the wiring is embedded in a concrete ceiling, then it is common property but if it is above a dropped ceiling and only serves that unit, then it is lot property.  Make sense?

                    The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                    #70459
                    Ziggy
                    Flatchatter

                      What about replacing aircon ducting? Is that common property? Or is it the owner’s responsibility?

                      #70460
                      SteveB00
                      Flatchatter
                      Chat-starter

                        Fair Trading’s much-quoted “Who’s responsible …?” document is ambiguous on this as it says that wiring in a ceiling is common property but wiring in a wall that services only one unit isn’t. Complicating the issue is that many apartments have false or dropped ceilings which, according to my block’s lawyers, are technically a wall.

                        So I would say that if the wiring is embedded in a concrete ceiling, then it is common property but if it is above a dropped ceiling and only serves that unit, then it is lot property. Make sense?

                        I believe the “Who’s responsible …?” document says that wiring in *internal* walls isn’t common property; wiring in *common* walls is common property. A common wall is one that abuts another unit or common property, and this includes ceilings (which abut one or the other).

                        A dropped ceiling isn’t a common wall; it’s internal to the unit.

                        The wiring the OC has declined to repair is in a metal conduit embedded in a concrete ceiling (which is also the floor of the unit above, I think).

                        #70463
                        Jimmy-T
                        Keymaster

                          A dropped ceiling isn’t a common wall …

                          Didn’t say it was …

                          The wiring the OC has declined to repair is in a metal conduit embedded in a concrete ceiling (which is also the floor of the unit above, I think).

                          Then it is common property unless there has been a by-law created (during renovations, for instance) to state otherwise. Start mediation proceedings at Fair Trading  – that will sort them out and costs nothing.

                           

                          The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                          #70468
                          billyboy
                          Flatchatter

                            SteveBoo said:

                            The wiring the OC has declined to repair is in a metal conduit embedded in a concrete ceiling (which is also the floor of the unit above, I think).

                            You might be able to sell them on this by mentioning insurers reduce premiums on rewired buildings!

                            If it’s an art deco building, with split metal conduit in the ceiling slab – and usually running down the walls too – you could well be looking at vulcanised Indian rubber, single conductor wiring. Even if working fine now, it’s well past it’s use by date.

                            We still have some remnant in the ceilings here that went out when moisture penetrated recently. It’s better to be proactive on replacing it before it fails I will say.

                            • This reply was modified 1 year ago by .
                            #70471
                            Jimmy-T
                            Keymaster

                              You might be able to sell them on this by mentioning insurers reduce premiums on rewired buildings!

                              This might get them over the line but the simple fact that they have a legally enforceable duty to maintain and repair common property should be enough.  They know this, you’d think, which is why they are arguing that it’s lot property.

                              You just have to tell them they’re wrong and they can either waste money on lawyers and then fix it anyway, or just fix it.

                              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                              #70481
                              SteveB00
                              Flatchatter
                              Chat-starter

                                SteveBoo said:

                                The wiring the OC has declined to repair is in a metal conduit embedded in a concrete ceiling (which is also the floor of the unit above, I think).

                                You might be able to sell them on this by mentioning insurers reduce premiums on rewired buildings!

                                If it’s an art deco building, with split metal conduit in the ceiling slab – and usually running down the walls too – you could well be looking at vulcanised Indian rubber, single conductor wiring. Even if working fine now, it’s well past it’s use by date.

                                We still have some remnant in the ceilings here that went out when moisture penetrated recently. It’s better to be proactive on replacing it before it fails I will say.

                                The OC is keen for this to happen, but they believe all wiring serving only one unit should be replaced by the unit owner. I can see the sense in this: the unit owner has to replace the wiring in the walls; why should their responsibility end where the wire enters the ceiling? But as far as I can tell, this is what the act says, and a unit owner and OC would have to cooperate in and co-finance the full re-wiring of a unit.

                                #70496
                                Jimmy-T
                                Keymaster

                                  It’s not the wiring, it’s the fact that it’s embedded in common property.  If every owner was left to fix this themselves, then common property ceilings (which are also floors) could be seriously compromised.  Your strata committee needs to stop acting like a group of self-interested individuals and start taking responsibility for the whole building.

                                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                                  #70482
                                  SteveB00
                                  Flatchatter
                                  Chat-starter

                                    You might be able to sell them on this by mentioning insurers reduce premiums on rewired buildings!

                                    You just have to tell them they’re wrong and they can either waste money on lawyers and then fix it anyway, or just fix it.

                                    The reply I received from the OC claims they have legal advice supporting their position. How can I dispute this? I suspect that getting a lawyer might cost more than just paying for the rewiring.

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