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  • #66336
    Victoria5C
    Flatchatter

      Hi there,
      I have a had a few headaches with the exterior wall of the property and looking for advice on some potential structural issues. I am a first time home owner and have little knowlege being a landlord as I’ve always rented.
      I’m keen to know what type of experts I should engage to inspect, assess extent of structural issues, determine root causes and suggest remediation options if any are required.
      I purchased a ground floor apartment (2A) of a ‘boutique’ sized strata complex in August 2021. The apartments were built in 2014 and lower than three storeys in height.
      There is crack to the exterior wall of my open air courtyard extending from the apartment above which runs down to my apartment. The crack has caused water entering the exterior envelope of the wall into my bedroom..  I have enclosed a photo of it.
      I called OC to report the water seepage and sent photos of the affected area in my bedroom and explained that on two occasions there have been pools of water appear after heavy rainfall despite the window being completely closed.
      The property manager said the wall in question isn’t a common wall, it’s a wall that is exterior faced therefore they are not responsible for fixing this and would be at my own expense. They said that they could request a plumber on my behalf to come out but that I would be held liable for the call out fee/invoice.  I have asked them if they could provide the plan of the subdivision referencing that this wall is not common property but I’m struggling to understand how to read the plan.
      Things to note:
      The builders came out to patch this crack up with the previous landlord in early 2014 when they first moved in.
      I purchased this property in August 2021. This development is no longer under builders warranty insurance as this has expired.
      There is mould forming around the skirting boards including damp patches on my bedroom fall. I believe this is due to the crack to the exterior wall but also believe that the window flashings were installed incorrectly, allowing water to find its way between the outer and inner skin of the wall as ingress always takes place on colder nights and when raining.
      I pay body corporate fees which includes Body Corporate  insurance but apparently the cover does  not cover the maintenance of the wall, as the insurance only covers one off events such as fire, flood & earthquakes.
      My concern is, who is responsible for this being fixed. Is this a OC issue or is the wall in question my responsibility. I look forward to learning of your thoughts.

      • This topic was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by .
    Viewing 12 replies - 1 through 12 (of 12 total)
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    • #66341
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        If the wall isn’t common property (which I find difficult to believe) then it is the other lot owner’s property and you should talk to them about fixing it.

        I’m far from being an expert on Victorian strata law, but as a general principle, if a problem in property owned by another person or entity is causing damage in your property then they should fix it at their expense.

        It’s not up to you to hire experts, apart maybe from an experienced strata lawyer.

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #66463
        Austman
        Flatchatter

          It’s the “Exterior Face” that is your issue.

          If that is declared on the Plan of Subdivision, then the wall is totally your responsibility to maintain.  Right through from its interior surface to its exterior surface.

          Parts of it that are load bearing to the building would be common property.  But in many types of construction, the exterior walls themselves are not structurally load bearing to the building.

          While “Exterior Face” is not exactly common in VIC apartments, it’s not rare either.  So lot owners can indeed own external walls or parts of them.

          Even if the wall was the more common “Interior Face”, you’d still be responsible for any waterproofing membranes under its exterior surface. That’s legislated in VIC.

           

          #66481
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            That’s another interesting difference between NSW and Victoria law.  I don’t think that distinction is made in NSW.  The OP’s problem is exacerbated by the fact that the crack starts in her upstairs neighbour’s wall, meaning it can’t be fixed without their approval and, one would assume, financial assistance.

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #66487
            Austman
            Flatchatter

              The OP needs to know if the crack is actually the culprit.

              There should be a waterproofing system within the wall.  Some types of external wall can become completely waterlogged (eg masonry is porous) and rely on other methods to achieve waterproofing.

              Even if the upstairs neighbour has to repair their section of the wall, they’ll have to do that.  Lot owners must maintain their lot.

               

              #66491
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                Absolutely.  And even if the crack is the cause and water is running down into it, the crack cuuld be running UP from the OP’s floor.  Which brings us back  to the question of who pays and how much is each owner liable for? This one could run and run.

                Seriously, though. The two owners need to get together and share the cost of exploration and remediation with maybe a mediation to sort out who is responsible for what.  CAV should offer that service but it sounds from other posts like they are overwhelmed with work.

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                • This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by .
                #66513
                Victoria5C
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  The Strata Property manager denies that the wall in question is common property but liaised with the real-estate agent for the unit above to organise an investigation to be carried out via their trades so the cause could be identified. I complied with their request on 30th September and was told by my strata manger that he would reach out to me update me on the investigation. (I also found this is a bit wierd as to why the strata property manager is saying that the realestate agent for the unit above to organise trades. Even though there is a tenant in the above unit, shouldn’t it be strata organising this rather than the realestate agent?)

                  Strata Property Manager 30<sup>th</sup> September:  ‘I will contact the agent of Lot XX on Monday and ask them to revisit the investigation via their trades and report’ their findings accordingly so that I can update you.

                  On the 27th November I followed up with my strata manager to see if there were any new findings from the investigation as It has been roughly two months and the  actual cause of the mould and damage remains, and waters seepage continues to return after heavy rain fall but was told that the investigation never took place. Please see below the Property Manager response:

                  ‘Regarding the investigation from September, I have not been informed as to whether an investigation went ahead as the property manager of the relevant unit has stopped responding to my correspondence.

                  The damage to the affected areas have gotten worse, and I told my strata manager that it is essential that the source be identified as I’m starting to discover that this is more than just  can be multiple factors contributing to water entering my apartment such as the window flashings not being installed correctly, allowing water to find its way between the exposed outer crack and inner skin of the wall or but could be actually due to the storm water pipers not being fitted with flexible movement couplings causing expansion of the soil and structural distress to the apartment.  If the roof runs flat (which it does) and runs into a boxed gutter then it could be leaking. This could explain the new crack forming on my bedroom ceiling and my internal door hands and locks of my bifold glass sliding doors are no longer engaging and have condensation trapped between the glass.

                  I don’t feel like there have been adequate transparency which makes me wonder if it’s actually my responsibility to pay for the remediation.

                  In the  2021 AGM minutes one of the following matters of general business that were discussed was the stormwater issue and that is still hadn’t been rectified. As the minutes didn’t expand what the issue was, I asked my property manager to explain what this was about and explained that this could be the potential source of the leak,  his response was

                  ‘As for the stormwater issue listed in the 2021 AGM minutes, my understanding is that it has been rectified already, as the 2021 AGM took place on 12/01/2021’.

                  When I asked him to enclose the report and what steps were taken to resolve the issue, he didn’t respond. I then went over the March 2022 AGM minutes which quotes;

                  ‘Owners Corporation is awaiting the new Plan of Subdivision, this is not able to be completed until Mr X has the storm water issue addressed as noted in the previous years AGM Minutes’.

                  I’m not sure why my property manager said this was resolved last year when it is evident that it has not.

                  Further to this, the subdivision plan that I have in my contract of sales (2008 version)  has a modification table recording all addition changes to the plan. One of the affected parcels is to do with my lot, the unit above and common property areas. The time stamp of these amendments were made in 2013. If there is a new subdivision plan as stated in the March 2022 meeting notes, then how can the property manager be certain that this wall isn’t common property?

                  • This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by .
                  #66516
                  Victoria5C
                  Flatchatter
                  Chat-starter

                    Hi Ausman and those that responded. I just updated the thread and was hoping you could provide advice. Does this sound a bit odd to you, that the property manager won’t provide documention of the water storm issues.

                    #66518
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      Regardless of what anyone else says on this thread, I think it’s best that you seek specialised strata legal advice.  That’s for two reasons – one to get definitive answers on what your rights and responsibilities and secondly so that your strata scheme takes you seriously.

                      But generally speaking, if there are documents and correspondence related to the strata scheme, as an owner you have a right to see them.

                      If anyone has any suggestions for a good strata lawyer in Victoria, please post them here.

                      The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                      #66519
                      Victoria5C
                      Flatchatter
                      Chat-starter

                        Thanks JimmyT, I’m a first time owner so I really have no idea what my rights are, I’ll try and look into getting legal advice.

                        #66520
                        Austman
                        Flatchatter

                          Regardless of what anyone else says on this thread, I think it’s best that you seek specialised strata legal advice.

                          I agree.

                          I’ve dealt with dozens of these water ingress issues in VIC.  And, I regret to say, owners have usually get the actual eventual issue totally wrong.

                          So it not only needs professional investigation but it also may need profession opinion about maintenance responsibilities.

                          Unfortunately, I regret to say, IME professional investigation has often got the issue totally wrong as well.  They can very very tricky issues to solve.   The professionals can need to be top notch experts and not just a regular plumber/builder.

                          Still, in VIC cracks in walls marked “Exterior Face” and general waterproofing around the airspaces of their lots (inside or outside) is a legislated lot owner responsibility in most cases.  In VIC, an outside balcony, terrace or courtyard is usually treated like an inside bathroom as far as surface treatments including tiles and waterproofing is concerned.

                          If enough lots are being affected, the OC can decide to do investigations/repairs.    Deciding to repair lot property needs a Special Resolution in VIC which is not always easy to obtain.  But if most lots need the works it would be more likely.

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          #68040
                          Victoria5C
                          Flatchatter
                          Chat-starter

                            Hi Jimmy. Hope you don’t mind me messaging you but I wanted to provide an update. I ended up engaging with a building inspector to investigate where the leak was coming from. The inspector’s report was submitted to the body corporate and the property manager of the unit above in January.

                            Despite multiple attempts to get this fixed, no action has been taken, even though it is evident that the responsibility for the repairs lies with the unit above. I have explained to them that the ongoing damage has forced me to repair my bifold glass door as they no longer engage and has become a safety hazard that is interfering with my ability to work remotely, as water keeps entering my bedroom anytime it rains, which also doubles as my home office space.

                            Further to this, mould is continuing to spread and I can’t begin to think what’s actually happening inside of the wall.  The report said that the entire wall needs to be removed, as cosmetic repairs are no longer safe and must be addressed immediately. My question is whether I should escalate the matter to VCAT or consult with a lawyer.

                            Additionally, yesterday I noticed water and soil dripping down the walls in the shared store room, where we keep the bins. The subdivision plan indicates that the unit above’s courtyard is directly above the store room. I promptly contacted the body corporate and asked for an inspection.

                            However his response was ‘I understand this matter is serious one that needs to be addressed, as I have said in past an Owners Corporation can enter lots and carry out repairs, but only if they apply to VCAT and seek orders to do so. Not doing this would lead to all kinds of complications. As there is no common property involved, at this stage, my involvement is somewhat limited, without having orders from VCAT to allow us entry to private property to carry out private works (or investigations on private property)’.

                            I am a bit confused by his response. The storeroom is common property so isn’t this body corporate job to attend this? Is he also correct in saying that body corporate can’t interfere or force repairs unless I actually go to VCAT? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

                            • This reply was modified 1 year, 6 months ago by .
                            #68053
                            Jimmy-T
                            Keymaster

                              The Owners Corporation (body corproate) can’t do anything without the OK from VCAT (unless it’s a dire emergency requiring immediate action).

                              The best thing you can do now is call an experienced strata lawyer and you might also inform the upstairs neighbour that that’s what you intend to do and you will be seeking all costs as well as remediation.

                              The issue with the store room seems complex. Call a strata lawyer.

                              The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
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