rules for valid amendments

@JimmyT said:

@giri said:

1.  how does one move a valid amendment  to something that was a motion on last ECM meeting? 

You can’t.  The meeting has been and gone.  An amendment to a motion needs to be made when the issue is being discussed. All you can do now is ask someone on the Executive Committee to move a new motion at the next meeting or to challenge the previous meeting’s minutes as a true record (unlikely to succeed).

Thanks – query – How does someone not on the ECM have input into a motion of ECM? Only retrospectively? Only through someone on ECM?

2.  how do I get the amendment to this ECM motion on the agenda of the imminent AGM. 

This would be a new motion to rescind the previous decision at the EC meeting and must be given to the secretary in writing before the agenda of the AGM is sent out.

 

Thanks. Can’t I phrase the new motion as an amendment? sounds more conciliatory. 

3. if the motion is already on the agenda for the imminent AGM, how do I move a valid amendment to it? (not sure if it will be on the agenda of the AGM – i haven’t received the agenda yet).

You can move an amendment at the general meeting provided it doesn’t substantially alter the nature of the motion.  For instance, if there was a motion to ban barbecues, you could move an amendment to make it only a ban on solid fuel  or gas barbecues but not electric ones.  This would be allowed because owners will have had a chance to consider the whole issue.  However, you could not move an amendment to also ban, say, portable air conditioners as owners haven’t had a chance to consider that before the meeting.

There is no need to move a motion to reject a motion that’s on the agenda since rejection is also an option in any vote.  Your problem then is getting enough votes against the motion which means stirring up your fellow owners BEFORE the meeting.  Your chairman will probably come to the meeting with a raft of proxies and you need to have enough owners already in your camp if you want to overturn any motion that’s on the agenda.

Thanks so much for your answer JimmyT. I’m still trying to figure out what to do. I’m new, I don’t live there or even in the city so don’t see others easily. I don’t know what’s on the AGM agenda so if I don’t know if it’s a motion. Would you say that if it was a motion on the notice of EC meeting, it’s not on the AGM? Would i be best to assume that and put it as a new motion?  Can I out it as a new motion rather than rescind the previous? I haven’t been able to get a copy of the last ECM minutes despite requests. The notice of EC meeting on the noticeboard was partially obscured – what i could read said that (basically)

any defects to be investigated by only X. If cause turns out not to be common property, owners have to pay back X’s fee.  if owners disagree, they can seek their own expert’s assessment BUT OC will get a report from X anyway (implication being X’s report rules). X has been hired by OC at quite a high fee in the past but its clear from minutes that several past assessments by him have not been satisfactory. I want an amendment that allows 3 independent reports as an option for owners. a) the motion looks like a closed shop b) the amendment reflects standard practice  c)  it is more open and transparent. 

that seems reasonable to me but things like face saving etc can come into play as well as what;s fair and reasonable. 

@giri said:

@JimmyT said:

@giri said:

2. previous input by jimmyT advised that if motion was voted on at EC meeting, I couldn’t put an amendment to it at the AGM. 

No, you have misunderstood my response and I think that’s because you misunderstand the use of the word ‘amendment’ which has quite a specific meaning when it comes to meetings.

You can put forward a new motion that countermands a previous decision of the EC – that’s not an amendment, it’s a new motion.  This is a valid process because Owners Corp (AGM) decisions are superior to EC decisions.

FYI:  An amendment, in the context of a meeting,  is a change proposed to a motion before or while it is being discussed.  You can’t amend a decision that has been made – but you can propose a motion to make a new decision that differs from the previous one.

By the way, I think all the jiggery-pokery over how many quotes to get and from whom misses the point.  The Owners Corp has an absolute responsibility to fix common property.  If they do it cheaply or badly, they have to do it again properly.  Quick non-fixes by an incompetent tradesman are just throwing good money after bad and this should be forcibly pointed out at the meeting where this is being discussed.

If I were you I would propose an amendment to the motion you have mentioned that simply says the Owners Corp accepts the two assessment that have been given and gets on with repairing the problem.

dear JimmyT

can i clarify please? re your last para – should this be an amendment or a new motion (since it would be at a different meeting to the one in which the motion was passed). thanks so much for all your help

regards

giri

@JimmyT said:
I was working on the basis that there was another motion coming up aty your AGM to seek further quotes.  If that isn’t the case, then, yes, propose a new motion for the AGM that the Owners Corp accepts one of the two quotes and proceeds with the work ASAP.

When you speak to the motion at the meeting explain that any decision to delay the work any further will result in you talking the Owner Corp to the CTTT to have an order issued  forcing them to do the work.

thanks JimmyT. sorry to take up so much of your time. I really appreciate it.

 i haven’t even gotten to the accepting a quote stage. We are now stuck at accepting the investigation reports. what they want to do now 3 months later is get another investigation of the problem (not another quote). this would be the 4th investigation in all and the 3rd by them (to date, they had the first 2 and i had a 3rd done which confirmed the findings of their 1st and most thorough report). They say they have the right to get another investigation (and indeed as many more as they want) even though they have already had 2 done because this latest would be by ‘their expert’ .  I’ve included some of their argument below. my query – 1. would the CTTT agree and thinkit is reasonable for them to now bring in ‘their expert’ ? 2. How expensive is the CTTT likely to be (ball park figure if that’s at all possible)

some of the response fr strata manager is below

‘noted your view regarding a fourth assessment and make the following additional comments

 a. the forth assessment is deemed necessary for the purpose of the owners corporation seeking independent EXPERT ADVICE for and on behalf of the owners corporation. We note that the expert advice received to date was obtained by you and on your behalf and not for the owners corporation. It is further noted that whilst the owners corporation have arranged two assessments  to date neither of these assessments have been conducted by an expert . There is no limit on assessments that an owners corporation can arrange for any one matter, they should not be denied of the opportunity to assess/conduct thorough inspections and investigative works   relating to al common property works nor should they be limited on the number of inspections required to properly arrive to a resolution that allows each party to fulfil their obligation in particular the owners corporations obligation under section 62 of the Strata Schemes Management 1996.

9. there  is no limit on the number of assessments the owners corporation can be restricted to obtaining, nor is it in our view unreasonable  that a expert inspection be conducted for the owners corporation. The complicity of the issue has resulted in the need of further assessments. Obtaining a expert opinion on behalf of the owners corporation is intended for the purpose of verifying the recommended repairs and ensuring the repairs are not a betterment in any way. This is not unusual for each party to engage an expert to provide assistance in determining the correct scope of works which each party are obligated to carry out  

 10. the quotations you obtained will still be considered as agreed at the committee meeting held on … , it was the intention of having (…) inspect prior to the next meeting so that they can also comment on the scope of works set out in the quotations you have obtained, with the focus being on the correct scope of works agreed upon to properly address the issue

In conclusion you are advised that

11. Should you deny the owners corporation access to further inspections this would cause delay in considering the repairs in question/relating to your lot

12. potentially causing additional cost for the owners corporation should (…) not be able to inspect your unit at the same time as others and resulting in a separate inspection.