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  • #61720
    Stratanaive
    Flatchatter

      confusion reigns on common property – who pays in this situation (in NSW) ?

      A broken dishwasher pipe leaked water through common property and damaged the ceiling of lot beneath requiring drying and painting. Which is correct for payment?

      if common property damaged eg: ceiling in this case – it is owners corp $$ to repair.
      if private property damaged eg: carpets it is the dishwasher lot owner responsibilty to repair.

      Any help to settle discussion (?) is gratefully accepted.

      • This topic was modified 2 years ago by .
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    • #61733
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        In both instances it’s the lot owner with the dishwasher who should pay.  Normally this would happen via their home and contents insurance.

        This is not the owners’ corp’s responsibility in any way shape or form so the “offending” owner is the one who should pay.  If the lot owner can’t or won’t pay, the owners corp may be able to claim on its insurance.

        The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
        #61736
        Stratanaive
        Flatchatter
        Chat-starter

          Thankyou for your prompt reply .
          could I be ask a clarification 😬 is this the same for any appliance eg: a hot water service also ? Or are there nuances ?

          thanks again

          #61738
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            is this the same for any appliance eg: a hot water service also ? Or are there nuances ?

            The key to all this is mostly who owns the pipe that burst.  If the burst pipe or hose was between the wall and the appliance, then it’s the lot owner’s responsibility.  If it was inside a common property wall, it is the owners corp responsibility.

            Regarding a hot water service, the same principle applies, except that in many schemes the hot water supply is a common property installation and the OC would then be responsible for the hot water system and the pipes leading to it.

            The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
            #61741
            Austman
            Flatchatter

              Sorry, but I totally disagree.

              For a start, mere ownership of something is never enough to establish liability.  Negligence is usually needed too.

              For burst pipes where negligence can’t be established:

              The OC would pay for repairs to common property.  Affected lot owners/occupiers would pay for repairs to their lot/personal property.  All can claim on any insurance policy that they have access to.

              For burst pipes where OC/lot owner/lot occupier negligence can be established:

              The negligent OC/lot owner/lot occupier would be liable for repairs to both common and lot property.  But can claim on any insurance policy that they have access to.  That includes, for the OC and lot owners, the OC’s building insurance policy.

              Usually, unless there was required maintenance (or similar) that was not done, it’s difficult to establish negligence and therefore liability in these situations.

               

               

               

               

              #61745
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                For a start, mere ownership of something is never enough to establish liability.  Negligence is usually needed too.

                How may times do you need to be told to check your appliance hoses before failure to do so is negligence?

                But I’m going to vary my response slightly and come at it from another direction.

                It’s the lot owner’s responsibility but it seems the damage to common property will be covered by strata insurance.  However, where it isn’t covered, then the lot owner is liable.

                When would strata insurance NOT cover this damage?  When there is an excess on the policy and it only covers part of the cost.  See this Q&A on Lookupstrata.

                The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                • This reply was modified 2 years ago by .
                #61753
                Jimmy-T
                Keymaster

                  The dishwasher’s (any appliance really) owner/operator is only liable if it’s established they have used it  negligently.   Good luck with that re dishwashers.

                  And where do you get that information from?  Please quote a source. An NCAT ruling?  An insurance company’s website? Anything?

                  I have a fully integrated dishwasher and I can see where the water input hose and the waste pipe connect to the mains (under the sink). If they burst, I would be liable (if owners corp insurance didn’t cover it).

                  Your personal experience and your opinion, regardless of how often you repeat it, is not necessarily fact.

                  I provided an authoritative source for my view.  How about you back yours up with, say, a link to a website?

                  The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
                  #61748
                  Austman
                  Flatchatter

                    How may times do you need to be told to check your appliance hoses before failure to do so is negligence?

                    On an integrated dishwasher where you can’t even see them and they are “permanently” connected at installation?

                    Please tell us.

                    All of the dishwasher owners manuals that I have, in their maintenance sections, fail to mention it at all.  It’s actually happened to one of my dishwashers and the leak came from inside the machine.

                    The dishwasher’s (any appliance really) owner/operator is only liable if it’s established they have used it  negligently.   Good luck with that re dishwashers.

                     

                     

                    #61863
                    philjohnk
                    Flatchatter

                      Concerning the appliance, whatever it is, you would have a monumental argument with the manufacturer if the product was out of warranty surely.  Most manufacturers just wash their hands (pun intended) once the warranty period runs out. Surely that has to be taken into account in this discussion, at least you take one party out of the equation.  However if it was still in warranty when it caused the problem/damage you would need to look at the warranty provisions carefully. My guess is the manufacturer would have covered themselves for 3rd party damage.  But………?

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