- This topic has 14 replies, 10 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 4 months ago by .
-
Topic
-
Yay! Let’s go lawyer bashing. Minister for Fair Trading Anthony Roberts says he plans to curb strata lawyers who get rich by pursuing defect claims against developers.
They will have to “find another ambulance to chase,” Mr Roberts told the Australian Financial Review, commenting on developers’ claims that the reason apartment block development had slowed in NSW was because of the cost and disruption of legal actions over defects.
“The banquet is over,” added the Minister. “I’d rather see money put into quality construction and rectifying faults than putting money into the pockets of lawyers,”
Good thinking, sir! That’ll teach those pesky legal eagles not to … um … defend our rights.
But setting aside the “well, d’uh!” point that if there were no defects in the first place there would be no claims, are they honestly such a big problem?
Developers say they don’t have this issue anywhere else. Really? If that’s the case, why then has strata home building in NSW dropped by less than half the national average in the past year, according to Strata Community Australia, the strata managers’ organisation.
It doesn’t make sense. Does the Minister honestly plan to remove the last vestige of consumer protection from high-rise apartment buyers? There is no building warranty insurance for apartment blocks over three storeys high, so legal action is the owners’ only option when developers refuse to fix their defects.
We can’t even choose to do nothing; apartment owners have an unlimited legal obligation to maintain and repair common property, regardless of who’s at fault.
Are we being too harsh? Perhaps the minister plans to set up a system whereby truly independent surveyors decide what the defects are and how much it should cost to fix them.
Maybe … maybe not. He’s already reduced the claim period for non-structural defects – like loose balcony balustrades, sagging ceilings and badly fitting windows – from seven years to two.
You know, there are some very good developers out there, building great apartment blocks. They shouldn’t have to compete with construction cowboys who’ve been given a licence to build slums.
Read JimmyT’s full -analysis of the issue here. Join the conversation and read other views HERE. Read the original Financial Review story HERE.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
-
Replies
-
I absolutely agree with you Jimmy. The Minister is shooting the messenger.
NSW has horribly inadequate systems for dealing with building defects and Owners have no choice but to resort to legal action to protect their rights.
I was hopeful the recent sensitivity about developers being political donors might change the emphasis of government but apparently not so far.
Does the Minister think unit owners don’t vote?
@Gus Kernot said:
I absolutely agree with you Jimmy. The Minister is shooting the messenger.NSW has horribly inadequate systems for dealing with building defects and Owners have no choice but to resort to legal action to protect their rights.
I was hopeful the recent sensitivity about developers being political donors might change the emphasis of government but apparently not so far.
Does the Minister think unit owners don’t vote?
I also strongly agree with Jim and Gus that Anthony Roberts is wrong about home building insurance. Its not the lawyers who are the problem.
I have been a member of an executive committee who tried unsucessfully to get a builder to fix problems and then went to the CTTT. The building defects included major waterproofing problems, major problems with the tiling of common areas and the electrical distribution board burnt down. We have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars fixing the place. Apart from the builder our criticism is not of our lawyers but of the CTTT who were hopeless and totally unsympathetic to our consumer complaints.
Our lawyers worked against the obstructionism of the builder and the sheer idleness of the CTTT.
Our advice to others is do not buy a new unit in Sydney that has been built in the last 12 years as you will discover it has problems. Builders and the insurance know that the CTTT will do nothing and allow years of obstructionism.
In hindsight , our strata would have been better to raise the money itself rather than waste thousands of dollars in the joke that the CTTT is.
@irishpaddy said:
@Gus Kernot said:
I absolutely agree with you Jimmy. The Minister is shooting the messenger.NSW has horribly inadequate systems for dealing with building defects and Owners have no choice but to resort to legal action to protect their rights.
I was hopeful the recent sensitivity about developers being political donors might change the emphasis of government but apparently not so far.
Does the Minister think unit owners don’t vote?
I also strongly agree with Jim and Gus that Anthony Roberts is wrong about home building insurance. Its not the lawyers who are the problem.
I have been a member of an executive committee who tried unsucessfully to get a builder to fix problems and then went to the CTTT. The building defects included major waterproofing problems, major problems with the tiling of common areas and the electrical distribution board burnt down. We have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars fixing the place. Apart from the builder our criticism is not of our lawyers but of the CTTT who were hopeless and totally unsympathetic to our consumer complaints.
Our lawyers worked against the obstructionism of the builder and the sheer idleness of the CTTT.
Our advice to others is do not buy a new unit in Sydney that has been built in the last 12 years as you will discover it has problems. Builders and the insurance know that the CTTT will do nothing and allow years of obstructionism.
In hindsight , our strata would have been better to raise the money itself rather than waste thousands of dollars in the joke that the CTTT is.
Thanks for some sanity everyone.
@FlatChatFan said:Thanks for some sanity everyone.
The Owners Corporation Network of Australia was established by a group of Owners Corporations struggling to deal with defects. Its aim is to share information and improve legislation so strata living lives up to its promise. Check out our website. Tell us your stories. Information is power.
Karen Stiles, Executive Officer
We are in the predicament of having defects, a builder who has gone belly up, no home owners warranty. The legal advice to date ($5000) raises more questions – ie not sure who we can sue, if anyone, lots of arguments for the court but very murky. Half of us think we should fix the problems ourselves, the other half want to go down the legal path.
This is a very difficult decisions for residents.
Here’s a thought – if buildings were built to the building codes and properly checked onlong the way and only signed off my councils if they actually do comply then there would be little need for lawyers. All any of us would encounter would be the occasional settling crack in the walls and a few other minor rectifications.
Instead, we have story after story of people battling to get major recitifications done. My own complex was found to not meet BCA standards when we had an insurance claim made. The insurance company inspected the complex and found numerous items that did not meet BCA. Some were fixable, others were so big it could not be rectified! Letters to the builder, drafted my an owner who was a lawyer, did little. We ended up having to raise a special levy to cover costs in a new complex to rectify what we could so our insurer would continue to insure us! We still went after the builder but to no avail. The paperword did not show who actually signed off the building. So there we were, in a new complex, and $10,000 out of pocket.
There are many stories out there. And with a two year warranty on buildings now, I would definitely not buy into a new complex, nor anything new for that matter! Even cars come with a 3 – 5 year warranty these days. But your home – apparently 2 will do. Perhaps developers who do the right thing could offer extended warranties on their new builds to get the people in?
I’m absolutely stunned by Minister Roberts attitude to this long standing problem and his stunning flippant remarks about lawyers. These guys are sometimes the only avenue we have left in dealing with developers. If something goes wrong in a building, the developer runs a mile, closely followed by every government department you talk to. My “ambulance chasing lawyer” was very necessary in reigning in a developer who built a substandard building which was not even close to being to fire code, gave a long term contract to a strata manager that was clearly working against the scheme and working for the developer at other buildings, and owned indirectly through “other companys” 51% of the voting rights. As chair of the scheme, I had to put up with this developer slandering me and others on the committee and doing his best with his lawyers to do nothing about his responsibilities. Without his guidance, I would have definitely been screwed over! How this is ambulance chasing is beyond me!. If he minister really wants to make a difference, firstly get rid of private certifiers, or at the very least, there needs to be random checks on these guys. Id like to see how many jobs actually get defcted in this process. The truth is that they all are too scared to “defect” a developer who they work with regularly. How do they get their next job if they start to defect work? Any new certification scheme needs to include structural, fire, plumbing AND HVAC (plumbing and HVAC not normally subject to certification, and HVAC has virtually no “standards” but has been a big problem in some buildings with centralized heating/air).
Interestingly, my “ambulance chasing lawyer” is now very active in trying to rectify the shortcomings with our strata laws and compliance with building codes/warrantys. He too was innocently burned in one of Australia largest strata schemes where the building was not up to code. Each unit was up for $100,000 in rectification work on “brand new units” they couldn’t sell. I recall Sydney Council even wanted to condemn the building at one stage. The legals for this dragged on for a decade and he only knows too well the shortcomings of the current laws and the devastating effect that our inadequate laws have on ordinary people. Even worse for him, he was friends with the developer before he purchased his unit! He has campaigned selflessly for over a decade to try to put our outdated strata laws and our building warranty laws right and he had high hopes for a change with the new state government. It looks like he is going to be very disappointed along with thousands of strata unit owners, and i am sure he is not going to be happy about being called “an ambulance chaser”.
The complex I am buying into is a joint development of [at this point we get a list of developers and builders … any of whom could sue me when they read the next part. NO NAMES PLEASE – JimmyT]
When the inevitable defects occur who do we chase up the developers of the builder?
With the claim period for non-structural defects reduced from 7 years to 2 years, surely even somewhat decent developers & builder will be tempted to cut corners etc, knowing that their work only has to ‘hold out’ for two years.
I swear I am dreading moving into my new apartment.
Personally, I think there should be a ‘name and shame’ list (similiar to the Food Authorities list of dodgy restaurants) for the building trade.
Wouldn’t we all love to know who the builders & developers were in irishpaddy’s and ‘never again’s cases?
I have spent $600K on an ‘off the plan’ apartment (due for completion soon), why should I have to be up for thousands more, because our ‘brilliant new State Government’ has decided to jump into bed with these dodgy developers/builders? I am absolutely dumbstruck that this sort of thing can legally happen.
There needs to be a list somewhere of these rubbish builders/developers.
Knowing that you are dealing with a reputable builder/developer strikes me as somewhat more important than knowing where to avoid eating so as not to get a cockroach in your curry!
My only regret is that I didn’t find this forum until after I had exchanged contracts on my apartment.
I sold my house because I wanted something that I thought would be less maintenance and a little more stress free. Looks like I am about to find out what high maintenance & high stress are all about!
I guess there is a reason why the ‘Why I love apartment living’ section of this forum only has 3 posts and all of them written by Jimmy T.
Why not a letter/email writing campaign against the Minister?
Jimmy, I will understand if this has to moderated out, but I have been in a vicious fight with developers and my feelings are rather jaundiced!
@defectdetective said:
Why not a letter/email writing campaign against the Minister?Jimmy, I will understand if this has to moderated out, but I have been in a vicious fight with developers and my feelings are rather jaundiced!
Hey I only edit out the personally abusive, the exceptionally stupid, spam and the potentially libellous. By all means please write to the Minister. Here’s his email address: office@roberts.minister.nsw.gov.au.
Fire away.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.