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  • #9096 Reply | Quote
    Anonymous

      Can somebody explain how Section 162(3) and section 183B(1) are operated by CTTT?

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    • #19835 Reply
      Jimmy-T
      Keymaster

        @SMO said:
        Can somebody explain how Section 162(3) and section 183B(1) are operated by CTTT?

        Hey, if you can’t be bothered to cut and paste them for everyone to read, I can’t be bothered to answer.

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        #19839 Reply
        Anonymous

          @JimmyT said:

          @SMO said:
          Can somebody explain how Section 162(3) and section 183B(1) are operated by CTTT?

          Hey, if you can’t be bothered to cut and paste them for everyone to read, I can’t be bothered to answer.

          Great answer Jimmy. That is the way to help strata owners.

           

          #19841 Reply
          Jimmy-T
          Keymaster

            @SMO said:


            @JimmyT
            said:
            Hey, if you can’t be bothered to cut and paste them for everyone to read, I can’t be bothered to answer.

            Great answer Jimmy. That is the way to help strata owners.

            Great response, SMO. You still haven’t pasted up the material so other people can see what you are talking about.  This website is about sharing information – not just answering individuals’ specific questions.

            [Edited after further information received]

            And, hey, it turns out I was looking at the wrong section 162 – see Scotty’s answer above.

            The section you are referring to says this:

            (3) Order may be made without application in certain circumstances
            An Adjudicator may make an order under this section, without an application having been made for the order, but only if satisfied that the management structure of a strata scheme the subject of an application under this Chapter is not functioning or is not functioning satisfactorily.

            Meanwhile 183 B (1)says this:

            183B Orders for appointment of strata managing agent

            (1) Order appointing strata managing agent to exercise functions of owners corporation

            The Tribunal may, on its own motion, make an order appointing a person as a strata managing agent:

            (a)  to exercise all the functions of an owners corporation, or

            (b)  to exercise specified functions of an owners corporation, or

            (c)  to exercise all the functions other than specified functions of an owners corporation.

            And they both mean that either an adjudicator or the tribunal can decide, while examining the evidence relating to a completely different issue, that a strata scheme is so dysfunctional that it merits the appointment of a strata manager to take over the running of the scheme.

            See the posts from ScotlandX and myself (above) for more details.  

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            #19847 Reply
            scotlandx
            Flatchatter

              I think SMO meant s 162(3) which provides that an order to appoint a managing agent can be made notwithstanding that no application for such appointment has been made, but only if the adjudicator is satisfied the scheme isn’t functioning or not functioning satisfactorily.

              That is pretty self-explanatory, an application may be made in relation to something else, and on the basis of the facts presented the adjudicator may reach the conclusion that the scheme isn’t functioning/functioning satisfactorily, and determine a manager should be appointed.

              #19848 Reply
              Jimmy-T
              Keymaster

                Thanks Scotty.

                I was looking at the wrong section which, at the risk of labouring the point, illustrates how citing a section of the Act then demanding an answer to a vague question is not helpful to anyone.

                The section referred to actually says this:

                (3) Order may be made without application in certain circumstances
                An Adjudicator may make an order under this section, without an application having been made for the order, but only if satisfied that the management structure of a strata scheme the subject of an application under this Chapter is not functioning or is not functioning satisfactorily.

                And to add to what Scotty said, what this means is that if an adjudicator, in assessing an application for something entirely different, realises that a strata scheme is seriously dysfunctional, they can use their own judgement to decide it merits the statutory appointment of a strata manager to sort things out.

                Bearing in mind that the adjudicator can set different parameters for different situations – it could be for a specific period or limit their control to certain areas like finances or repair and maintenance – this is not necessarily a complete takeover of the running of the Owners Corp.  

                That said, if the situation had reached such a critical stage as to demand a statutory appointment where one wasn’t requested, I reckon the adjudicator would just give a strata manager full control.

                And on a side issue, this is something all Owners Corps and Executive Committees should be aware of.  Once a strata manager is appointed, especially one given full control of your scheme, you are gone.  At best you are just a group of owners with no powers beyond those given to individual owners under the Act.

                You have no say in the running of your building (because you have shown yourself incapable of doing so) and, in all likelihood, all your bad decisions will come back to bite you on the bum.

                And it’s even worse that it sounds.  If you have neglected to repair and maintain common property, the strata manager has a duty to do so and do so properly.  That means that cost is a secondary consideration to having the work done to the best professional standards – because the Strata Manager has a legal obligation to get it done properly (and no financial restraint).

                So consider that the next time you put off repairs and consign your sinking fund assessment to the ‘too hard’ basket in a deluded attempt to keep levies low to ensure your re-election at the next agm.

                The nicest, friendliest, most accommodating strata manager in the world still has a professional duty to perform and if that requires making decisions about levies and work required, they have a legal obligation to do whatever is required under the Act which supersedes any consideration about what the majority of owners want.

                In most cases, the statutory strata manager just stops listening to the former members of a failed EC – why would they do otherwise – and gets on with the job.

                 

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                #19856 Reply
                Anonymous

                  I was hoping someone who was familiar with the use of either of the Sections would post, i.e. someone who knows of an order being made under either section.
                  Does CTTT have a list of SMs and they appoint one from that list, or do they make an order that compels the OC to go and find a SM and then the OC must by some date appoint the SM with a full delegation for a year or does something else occurs?

                  What the Act says is easy enough to read but how is it executed?

                  #19310 Reply
                  kiwipaul
                  Flatchatter

                    My understanding of how a SM is appointed is that if you recieve a ruling that a SM is to be appointed the person (or EC or OC) that won the ruling has to provide the details of the SM. I would assume they are given a suitable time frame to find one.

                    Generally it would be an individual that has brought the case for a SM to be appointed to run the Strata because the OC and EC are dysfunctional and so it would be pointless expecting them to provide a SM.

                    #19862 Reply
                    Jimmy-T
                    Keymaster

                      The statutory appointment of a strata manager under Section 163 (3) – where no such appointment has been sought by parties in dispute but the adjudicator has decided that the strata scheme is not functioning to the extent that one is required – is a relatively rare occurrence, so much so that I have never received a single email about this in the 10 years I have been writing Flat Chat.

                      I would see this as an order of ‘last resort’ by an adjudicator who can see no other way of getting a strata scheme back on track.  This is very different from an owner or group of owners requesting such an appointment and should not be relied upon as a probable outcome in a case.

                      When owners request a statutory appointment, they are expected to have already contacted a strata manager who has agreed to take over when appointed. NB:  This doesn’t mean the strata manager is working for the plaintiffs, just that he or she has agreed to take on the case.

                      In the past, when statutory appointments were made, I believe the CTTT had a panel of strata managers to whom they could turn.  I would assume this is the system they would use under a 162(3) order since the owners can’t be expected to come with an SM in tow if they don’t know one is about to be appointed.

                      If the appointment of a statutory manager is what you want, then you should find one prepared to take on the role and apply accordingly, presenting as strong an argument as you can for this order.

                      Don’t hope that an adjudicator will intuitively reach this conclusion because they probably won’t.

                      Finally, it’s worth noting that the statutory strata manager can take over all the powers of the Owners Corp and the existing strata manager. In this case (pages 11-13 of this document) one owner refused to recognise the levies set by the statutory SM who had held a general meeting to establish the budget for the scheme.

                      But the only ‘mistake’ the SM had made was to hold the meeting – this was not required under the Act since he had been given all the powers and functions of the Owners Corporation and could make any decisions about the running of the building that were required.

                      This doesn’t exactly answer your question but it does shed some light on the absolute powers available to an appointed Strata Manager.

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                      #19863 Reply
                      Jimmy-T
                      Keymaster

                        @kiwipaul said:
                        My understanding of how a SM is appointed is that if you recieve a ruling that a SM is to be appointed the person (or EC or OC) that won the ruling has to provide the details of the SM. I would assume they are given a suitable time frame to find one.

                        KP, this is specifically about a case where neither side of a dispute has sought the appointment of an SM but the adjudicator has decided that is the best way to go.  In that kind of case, no SM would have been pre-selected because no such order was being sought. (See my last response below).

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                      Viewing 9 replies - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
                      Reply To: When CTTT appoints strata manager without that being requested
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