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  • #9721 Reply | Quote
    alex20
    Flatchatter

      I live in a block of flats built around 1960.  Our railings are low by todays standards.  We have had advice from lawyers and architects etc. and the consensus seems to be that we don’t have to raise the railings.  One person is determined to replace railings with higher ones by special assessment.  Have any other buildings had this problem and what was done?

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    • #22333 Reply
      Sir Humphrey
      Flatchatter

        Generally, you are not required to bring a building (or playground or whatever) up to current standards but 1) you are required to maintain it to continue to comply with the standards that applied at the time of construction and 2) if you change anything substantial, the new bit has to meet current standards. 

        Generally, your insurer will have these requirements as well as any authority giving a development approval. That said, if something is clearly below current standards, it might be reasonable to make improvements to meet the current standard. Some deficiencies relative to current standards are pretty minor and the risk to safety can be judged to be small. Other deficiencies really ought to be brought up to standard, especially if the risk is substantial and the cost to remedy is not large.

        I would think it would be hard to argue that someone should be prevented from bringing their railing up to a recognised current safety standard but it is similarly not reasonable to require it of everyone. 

        #22334 Reply
        Cosmo
        Flatchatter

          The railings are only required to be brought up to current standard if there has been any modification/repair/rectification work done that affected them.

          For example in our Strata when installing cladding to the outside of the building the railings were modified to better attach them to the building. When we looked into it, because we had them modified we were required to ensure they complied with current standards. 

          #22336 Reply
          Whale
          Flatchatter

            Peter said….. I would think it would be hard to argue that someone should be prevented from bringing their railing up to a recognised current safety standard but it is similarly not reasonable to require it of everyone. 

            I agree, but the problem is that the railing would be Common Property and the Owner is apparently expecting that their desired railings (higher) will be paid for by their Owners Corporation (O/C); and that’s not reasonable.

            Alex’s O/C could, by Special Resolution, grant consent to that Owner to themselves pay for, install, and maintain whatever railings they desire, but how that appears visually in the context of the whole building needs to be considered.

            As Peter said, site specific safety implications need to be handled carefully together with those around aesthetics, particularly if they involve child-safety where the debate about who it is that’s primarily responsible for the safety of children invariably arises.

            I won’t go into that now unless it’s an underlying issue in Alex’s post.

            #22356 Reply
            alex20
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              Thank you for your replies and advice.  I was not quite clear in that the rails are on a walkway in front of everyones front door and are applicable to everyone so many floors with rails are involved not just one person per rail. Thanks again.

              Alex20

              #22371 Reply
              Sir Humphrey
              Flatchatter

                @alex20 said:
                Thank you for your replies and advice.  I was not quite clear in that the rails are on a walkway in front of everyones front door and are applicable to everyone so many floors with rails are involved not just one person per rail. Thanks again.

                Alex20

                In that case, I think it is clear that the OC should decide to upgrade them all on the grounds that it would be a responsible thing to do to exercise its duty of care to residents and visitors. Alternatively, it might reasonably decide to upgrade none of them because they are in good condition and, while not quite complying with the current building standard, are only a small risk being not that far behind the current standard. 

                #22373 Reply
                Cosmo
                Flatchatter

                  PeterC is correct, the most important question that our EC had to ask was:

                  If there is an accident involving the railings and someone sues us will the insurance company payout or will they dispute our claim based upon the fact that the old railings should have been replaced?

                  #22375 Reply
                  Sir Humphrey
                  Flatchatter

                    On an analogous topic our insurer said they only required us to maintain our property to the standards that applied at the time of construction, but any replacements must comply with current standards. Our cover is for negligence. If an accident occurred and we were not found to be negligent then there is no claim. The accident might be tragic and unfortunate etc but not our fault and neither we nor the insurer has to pay for it. If we were found to be negligent then insurance covers it, but our next premium might be a bit higher!

                    Regardless of insurance, you still don’t want to be found negligent, so the question is whether the old rails really should be replaced. Is fixing or replacing ‘reasonably practicable’ IE not too hard to do and not so expensive as to be out of proportion to the risks. If it is reasonably practicable, I would replace the railings. 

                    If the railings are close to compliance, say, in good condition, only slightly too low, not easy to climb, gaps only slightly too wide and compliant with the previous standard, then I would note that they present only a low risk, but plan to replace them in due course when you might otherwise have had to spend money on them anyway, say for repainting. 

                    #22481 Reply
                    alex20
                    Flatchatter
                    Chat-starter

                      Thank you so much.  Loved all the input.  A few years ago the EC was advised by people consulted e.g. legals, architects etc. that we did not have to bring rails up to current standard.  Today received notice of special levy to be raised of $360,000 no question of will you or won’t you just notice of cost of new rails?  Rails are not in poor condition;  they have been taken care of as far as upkeep is concerned.  This all seems a bit underhand.

                      Alex20

                      #22484 Reply
                      DaveB
                      Flatchatter

                        If your OC wants to raise a special levy then there is a requirement under Section 76 of the Strata Schemes Management Act that a General Meeting be held to approve raising of the levy.  It’s not something the Executive Committee or Strata Manager can do off their own bat.  You’d expect that in the notice of meeting you would receive complementary information on why the work was considered necessary and copies of quotes for the work.   With that amount of money you’d expect also that a qualified building consultant would be giving a specification for the works to ensure that they meet current requirements. 

                        #22486 Reply
                        Jimmy-T
                        Keymaster

                          I think we have been over this ground before.  The advice that has been offered that the changes to the railings constitute an upgrade – which requires a special resolution – not a repair (which doesn’t).

                          Someone, preferably a group of you – needs to write to the EC members and tell them that they are acting outside the terms of the Act, the have no authority to raise the special levy and if they proceed with the action a general meeting will be called at which they will need to convince 75 percent of owners present to support them.  Otherwise they may have to pay for the work themselves as they have instituted an upgrade for which they have no authority. 

                          It is worth sending a letter to all owners telling them that they face either repair bills that they don’t need to pay, or legal expenses for defending either the EC against the owners or vice versa.

                          Communicate!

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                        Reply To: rails on old building
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