When it comes to getting your attention, there’s nothing quite like being warned that the latest innovation will put you out of business.
Okay, we’ve heard it all before – Uber was going to kill taxis, smartphones were going to turn us all into cyber-struck zombies and kill interpersonal relationships.
Okay, the last thing happened, but imagine if a friend was able to access a reliable response to a strata question instantly, wherever you happen to be.
And we’re not talking technical, jargon-ridden geeky stuff. If you everyone was able to get an instant answer to a normal question, like what to do about an annoying but scary neighbour, that could put paid to Flat Chat and especially the Flat Chat Forum.
That’s why this week’s podcast started with an experiment in a pizza restaurant. The results were fascinating, for good and bad reasons, so don’t be put off by the fact that we’re talking computer stuff.
Leading on from that, we chat about how spectacularly wrong an AI survey was when asked what you get for your money in real estate.
And that in turn takes us to where rents are rising fasts – and not at all – in Australia.
Lots to think about, as ever, in this week’s Flat Chat Wrap.
Transcript in Full
Jimmy (0:00 – 0:20)
We’re going to get all technical today, but in a fun way. I’ve been looking at, everybody’s talking about AI.
You’ve done stories even about AI and how it allocates carers in aged care. And I thought, I wonder if AI would help with problems in strata.
Sue (0:20 – 0:21)
Hmm, a good idea.
Jimmy (0:21 – 0:31)
So I’ve done a bit of an experiment in that and you’ve got some new figures about rentals and where they’re going up and how much they’re going up by. So that’s a lot.
Sue (0:31 – 0:33)
We better get started.
Jimmy (0:33 – 0:37)
We better get started. I’m Jimmy Thomson. I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review.
Sue (0:38 – 0:43)
And I’m Sue Williams and I write about property for Domain, the Sydney Morning Herald, Melbourne Age, the AFR. I think that’s all.
Jimmy (0:45 – 1:28)
And I should say that we also edit the website flatchat.com.au. And this is the Flat Chat Wrap.
So I was out with a friend recently, as I said on the James Valentine afternoons the other day, and I was talking to him about AI and what it can do and what it can’t do.
And I said, I wonder if Fair Trading in New South Wales could set something up where people could ask questions and AI could answer them.
Sue (1:28 – 1:29)
That would be a good idea.
Jimmy (1:29 – 1:30)
Yeah.
Sue (1:30 – 1:33)
So revolutionary for Fair Trading.
Jimmy (1:33 – 2:01)
He said, well, ask me a question. I’ll ask them. I’ll ask my phone.
So I said, yeah, off the top of my head, it’s a question that gets asked reasonably frequently when people get frustrated with living in strata. I don’t want to belong to my owner’s corporation. What can I do about it?
Now, I’m not going to tell you what answer came up on his phone. I’m going to go back to, there’s a version of artificial intelligence that comes with Microsoft called CoPilot.
Sue (2:01 – 2:02)
Oh, yeah.
Jimmy (2:02 – 2:28)
So I asked CoPilot the next day. I asked them the same question and it said, in New South Wales, a strata owner cannot simply opt out of an owner’s corporation. When you own a lot within a strata scheme, you’re automatically a member of the owner’s corporation, which is responsible for managing the common property and making decisions about the scheme.
True. All good. And then it says, however, there are a few options if you’re looking to change your involvement.
Sue (2:28 – 2:28)
Oh, yeah.
Jimmy (2:28 – 2:30)
Number one, sell your apartment.
Sue (2:31 – 2:32)
That’s a bit dramatic.
Jimmy (2:34 – 2:37)
That’s just the beginning. Number two, terminate the strata scheme.
Sue (2:38 – 2:39)
Oh, my God.
Jimmy (2:41 – 2:53)
And the third one, which is just almost sensible, if your issue is with the management of the strata scheme, you can work with other owners to change the strata managing agent or even move towards self-management.
Sue (2:53 – 2:57)
Wow. So did they have a fourth where you just knock down the building and start again?
Jimmy (2:57 – 3:16)
Well, yeah, I think that comes under terminating the strata scheme. And then it says, if you have specific concerns or need detailed advice, it might be helpful to consult with a legal professional who specialises in strata law. And then invites you to ask more questions because these things are supposed to be a conversation rather than just a Q&A.
Sue (3:16 – 3:17)
Right.
Jimmy (3:17 – 4:35)
You know, AI is supposed to work as a conversation. And it says, is there a particular issue you’re facing with your owner’s corporation? Fair enough.
I think it’s got a whole bunch of links to various, well, the strata managers and there’s New South Wales Fair Trading and there’s New South Wales Land Registry Services. That’s the number one option to terminate the strata scheme. Okay.
So this is the answer we got that night sitting in an Italian restaurant when I asked our friend to ask the same question. This is what Claude, this is the AI he has on his phone. This is what it said.
In New South Wales, if you own a strata apartment, you’re automatically become a member of the owner’s corporation, also known as a body corporate, upon purchasing the property. This is not optional. Membership is mandatory under New South Wales strata law.
The owner’s corporation is a legal entity responsible for managing and maintaining the common property of the strata scheme. As a member, you have certain rights and responsibilities, including one, voting on decisions affecting the strata scheme, two, paying strata levies to cover maintenance and management costs, three, complying with the strata scheme’s bylaws. While you can’t opt out of membership, your level of active participation in meetings and decision-making processes can vary.
However, it’s generally in your best interest to be involved in the management of your property.
Sue (4:35 – 4:45)
That’s really good advice, isn’t it? Because it does say you just don’t have to go to meetings or anything. You don’t have to be involved, but it’s a really good idea to be involved.
I think that’s a really good point.
Jimmy (4:45 – 5:15)
Well, this came up. I mean, remember that we were sitting in an Italian restaurant halfway through a bottle of red wine and suddenly this comes out and I’m looking at it and going, this is pretty much what I would have written if somebody had asked me this. Is it doing us out of a job?
Well, this is a question. So I thought I’ll give it a bit more of a test because it’s going to be, it’s supposed to be a conversation. So I sat and also I realised that, I mean, I have the benefit of knowing a bit about strata.
So I know the questions to ask.
Sue (5:16 – 5:17)
And you know what the answer should be.
Jimmy (5:18 – 5:34)
Yes. So I use the correct terminology and things like that. So I thought I’m going to ask a more ordinary question, like the questions that often come up on the flat chat forum.
So here’s my question. I live in strata in New South Wales and my neighbour is annoying me. What can I do?
Sue (5:35 – 5:35)
Good question.
Jimmy (5:36 – 6:10)
And the answer from Claude was living in strata, also known as a strata scheme or strata title, in New South Wales can sometimes lead to conflicts with neighbours. Here are some steps that you can take to address the issues with an annoying neighbour. Communicate directly.
Try talking to your neighbour calmly and politely about the issue. Document the issue. Keep a record of incidents, including dates, times and descriptions of the problematic behaviour.
Contact your strata committee. If direct communication doesn’t work, reach out to your strata committee or strata manager. They can help mediate the situation or take appropriate action.
Sue (6:10 – 6:11)
Good advice.
Jimmy (6:11 – 6:57)
Review your bylaws. Familiarise yourself with your strata scheme’s bylaws. If your neighbour is violating any of these, you can report it to the strata committee.
Use the formal complaint process. Lodge a formal complaint with your strata committee. They are required to address the issue within a reasonable time frame.
A lot of people don’t realise that and it’s true. Mediation. New South Wales Fair Trading offers a free mediation service for strata disputes.
This can be a good option before escalating to legal action. New South Wales Civil and Administrative Tribunal, NCAT. If all else fails, you can apply to NCAT for a hearing to resolve the dispute.
Remember, it is always best to try to resolve issues amicably before escalating to formal procedures. If you’d like more information, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Sue (6:57 – 6:59)
That’s pretty good, isn’t it? What do you think of that?
Jimmy (6:59 – 8:03)
Well, I thought, okay, fair enough. That’s all good advice. Really good advice.
But remembering that this is supposed to be a conversation, I thought, well, I’ll escalate things a little bit. So I wrote back, he’s a big guy and I feel threatened. This is what Claude said.
I understand that feeling threatened by your neighbour is a serious and stressful situation. Your safety and well-being are paramount. Given this new information, here are some additional steps you should consider.
One, prioritise your safety. If you ever feel in immediate danger, don’t hesitate to call 000. Two, document everything.
Keep a detailed log of all incidents, including dates, times and descriptions of any threatening behaviour or interactions. Three, avoid confrontation. Given that you feel threatened, it’s best to avoid direct confrontation with your neighbour.
Four, inform your strata manager. Contact your strata manager or committee immediately. Explain the situation in detail, emphasising that you feel threatened.
They have a duty of care to ensure the safety of all residents.
Sue (8:03 – 8:07)
It wouldn’t have occurred to me to phone the strata manager, would it you?
Jimmy (8:07 – 8:07)
No.
Sue (8:07 – 8:09)
What are they going to do about it, really?
Jimmy (8:10 – 8:45)
Well, exactly. But I think the general thrust of this is the more people who know about it, the safer you are. Consider filing a report with your local police station.
While they may not act immediately, it creates an official record of your concerns. Six, if the threatening behaviour continues, you might want to consider applying for an AVO, that’s an apprehended violence order. This is a court order that restricts a person’s behaviour towards you.
Seven, consider installing security cameras or a peephole in your door, if allowed by your strata scheme. That’s really important because the front doors of apartments are common property.
Sue (8:45 – 8:46)
Because they’re fire doors, aren’t they?
Jimmy (8:46 – 8:56)
Yeah, so you can’t just go drilling holes in them willy-nilly, although a lot of people do. Support network. Inform trusted friends, family or neighbours about the situation so they can check on you regularly.
Sue (8:57 – 8:58)
Oh, that’s a bit grim, isn’t it?
Jimmy (8:59 – 9:23)
Consider seeking advice from a lawyer specialising in strata law or personal safety issues. And New South Wales Fair Trading can contact them for advice on handling serious disputes in strata living situations. Remember, your personal safety is the most important factor.
Don’t hesitate to involve authorities if you feel genuinely threatened. And then it says if you need more specific advice, ask again.
Sue (9:23 – 9:24)
Wow.
Jimmy (9:24 – 9:26)
That’s pretty good, isn’t it?
Sue (9:26 – 9:27)
Yeah, it’s pretty comprehensive too.
Jimmy (9:27 – 9:29)
So do you think that’s us out of a job then?
Sue (9:30 – 9:49)
Quite possibly. But, you know, it’s really interesting. I’ve done a fair few stories about AI and I did a story about AI and architecture.
And I was talking to this foremost AI architecture expert in Britain the other day. And he was saying AI is kind of like a really enthusiastic junior member of staff.
Jimmy (9:49 – 9:49)
Right.
Sue (9:49 – 10:06)
And they kind of got a huge capacity for work because, you know, and they do stuff really, really quickly. But you always have to keep an eye on them because sometimes they can do stuff which is just brilliant and that you hadn’t thought of. And sometimes they do stuff which is really left of centre and completely stupid and weird.
Jimmy (10:06 – 10:07)
Right.
Sue (10:07 – 10:12)
He was saying it won’t really replace any of us doing our jobs. It will just get rid of all the, you know…
Jimmy (10:12 – 10:12)
The grunt work.
Sue (10:12 – 10:13)
Yeah, that’s right.
Jimmy (10:13 – 10:24)
Absolutely. Yeah, that’s what I feel about this. I mean, all of these things you go through, you go, yeah, yeah, that’s fine.
And then as you said, well, would you contact your strata manager about feeling threatened by a neighbour?
Sue (10:24 – 10:27)
That’s right. I mean, I think you get short shrift.
Jimmy (10:27 – 10:44)
And what are they going to do? And basically that’s going to be their response is, what do you expect us to do? Although the general principle of letting as many people know as possible is helpful because it means that when they find your body, the police know where to start looking.
Sue (10:45 – 10:57)
That’s right. But the difficulty is if you tell as many people as possible, if you tell them all in your strata scheme, that’s going to create even more aggression and bad feeling. So you kind of have to counter everything a little bit.
Jimmy (10:58 – 11:21)
Yeah, everything is contextual. You know, you’ve got to look at the context in which these issues are arising. I get the feeling that if fair trading had an online portal where you could go online and say, the dog next door to me is barking every night.
Sue (11:22 – 11:23)
What can I do with that?
Jimmy (11:23 – 11:40)
Can I do anything about it? And AI, I’m pretty sure, good old Claude here would immediately come back and say, well, these are the noise things. These are the bylaws.
Do this, check this, make a note of it. All that kind of stuff, all that information that’s there.
Sue (11:41 – 11:45)
But, you know, you can’t rule out that Claude might say poison the dog or something.
Jimmy (11:45 – 11:46)
I think you can.
Sue (11:47 – 11:47)
Yeah, can you?
Jimmy (11:47 – 11:48)
I think you can probably.
Sue (11:48 – 11:50)
But, you know, I mean, AI…
Jimmy (11:50 – 11:54)
Unless you’ve got evil Claude, the nasty AI.
Sue (11:54 – 11:57)
But, I mean, AI scrapes all the information on the net, doesn’t it?
Jimmy (11:57 – 11:58)
Yeah, it does.
Sue (11:58 – 12:06)
So if there were stories about people poisoning barking dogs, it could conceivably scrape that and give you that kind of advice?
Jimmy (12:06 – 12:07)
Possibly, I don’t know.
Sue (12:07 – 12:09)
Yeah, I don’t know either.
Jimmy (12:09 – 13:31)
My personal experience with AI was last year when Mole Creek, my novel, came out, I wanted to get some publicity in the Finn Review. So I wrote a story about part of the book is set in an area of Saigon during the Vietnam War called Soul Alley. And it was African-American soldiers who went there almost exclusively.
And there was a lot of shenanigans going on there. So nobody was boasting about what they did there. So the information about that is quite limited.
And I picked up a few things here and there. But I thought when I was doing the article, I thought I’d better just check. So I went on ChatGPT, which was the standard that we all started with, basically, and asked, you know, what have you got about Soul Alley?
And it came back, which really surprised me, and said they didn’t have any information about it. So I wrote my article and put all my references in. And it went in the Finn Review.
And that was great. And a couple of months later, I thought, I wonder if ChatGPT has caught up with information about Soul Alley. I wonder if I’ve triggered anything.
And there was this big article about Soul Alley. It was mine. It had lifted my article with all the references I had made, diligently included.
The only reference it didn’t include was that this was my article from the Finn Review.
Sue (13:32 – 13:33)
Oh, gosh.
Jimmy (13:33 – 13:37)
So it does work in that way. Now, you found something about…
Sue (13:37 – 14:12)
Yeah, Domain did a story the other day about money.com.au. They recently used an AI program. And it was a different one. It was called Mid Journey, which I haven’t come across yet, to generate images of typical homes in different Australian cities using the median house price data.
And in Sydney, AI believes, well, Mid Journey believes, that the median dwelling price of 1.095 million could buy you, wait for this, a lavish harbourfront mansion with a large sandstone tiled pool. In reality, a home like that, it says, would cost well over 20 million.
Jimmy (14:12 – 14:16)
Yeah, you get a deposit. Your 1 million would get…
Sue (14:16 – 14:20)
Well, for that median price, it could buy you a two-bedroom apartment in Pyrmont.
Jimmy (14:21 – 14:21)
Right.
Sue (14:21 – 14:30)
And in Melbourne, AI said that the median home price of 797,000 could buy an historic waterfront mansion on the Yarra River.
Jimmy (14:30 – 14:32)
It doesn’t know what it’s talking about.
Sue (14:32 – 14:38)
No, that’s right. So you kind of have to really keep an eye on it because you just don’t quite know when it’s going to go completely off track.
Jimmy (14:38 – 14:55)
Yeah. Well, I mean, as we found with the initial question to ChatGPT about not wanting to be involved in the owner’s corporation, they said, sell your apartment. That was option one.
It’s a bit radical. Whereas, you know, the one Claude…
Sue (14:55 – 14:57)
Yeah, it was much more measured.
Jimmy (14:57 – 15:29)
You know, you don’t have any choice. You’re a part of… But consider this, this, this and this, which is a much more measured response.
Talking about house prices or apartment prices and rentals. And you’ve done your own research without the help of artificial intelligence into rentals. That’s after this.
So, Sue, what’s the story on rentals? What’s happening? Are they going up?
They’re going down? Are they going sideways?
Sue (15:29 – 17:04)
Well, yes, a bit of everything, really. Domain’s latest quarterly rent report has just come out and it finds that unit rents are at a record high across all cities apart from Brisbane, Canberra and Hobart. So rents for apartments are still going up in most cities, particularly in Sydney and Melbourne, but going up by a much smaller degree.
So that’s great news for tenants, really. And for the owners of apartments who rented them out, well, it’s becoming much more of a regular market rather than the inflated market we’ve seen in the recent years. So it’s kind of settling down a lot.
But in Sydney, the record unit rent, the median record is now $720 a week. And so that’s the average. And it’s risen by 5.9% over the last year. But that’s four times lower than the previous year when rents rose 23.6%. So it is kind of settling down, really. And in Melbourne, the median rent is $580 a week. And that’s the lowest rise in 2.5 years because it’s only risen by 5.5%.
So unit rents are still rising, but by a much slower pace. So that’s kind of good news that we’re becoming a much more regular market. I mean, it’s good news really for landlords because they don’t want to kind of see tenants really hurting so much because a lot of tenants are moving out of their rented accommodation when the price becomes absolutely unaffordable, moving back in with mum and dad or sharing places. So there’s less demand for rentals as well.
Jimmy (17:05 – 17:18)
I’m interested, you know, Hobart hasn’t seen a big rise. And that could be because they’ve increased the rates for anybody putting their apartments on Airbnb to encourage them to put them back into the residential market.
Sue (17:18 – 17:19)
That may well have had an effect.
Jimmy (17:20 – 17:41)
The other thing is in the ACT in Canberra. I remember we were at a conference and somebody was asking why Canberra had much more progressive laws about defects than anywhere else in Australia. And somebody said because their residents in Canberra are better informed.
They’re better educated because they work for the government.
Sue (17:41 – 17:47)
Yeah, that’s right. And it’s the seat of government. So they’re sort of much closer contact.
Jimmy (17:48 – 17:53)
And as far as Brisbane’s concerned, I’m not sure, maybe they’re just building more. I suspect they are.
Sue (17:53 – 18:11)
Well, they’ve just become really unaffordable in Brisbane because the rate of growth has been so huge. But also migration is slowing down now, you know, with all the caps on international students and caps on visas. Yeah, Brisbane apartment rents have declined for the first time since 2020.
Jimmy (18:11 – 18:18)
And is that because of the international students or are they just building more or is it both?
Sue (18:18 – 18:37)
It could be a mixture of everything, really. There’s an improved vacancy rate there and there’s a slowdown in rental growth. I think there’s less demand in Brisbane because prices have become so high.
Prices of rents have become so high. So maybe there people are moving back in with other people.
Jimmy (18:37 – 18:44)
So it’s not that rents aren’t high in Brisbane. It’s that they haven’t, they’ve kind of reached, the bubble is about to burst.
Sue (18:44 – 18:54)
They’ve reached their maximum. I mean, we’ve had such escalating growth. It’s been phenomenal and incredible.
And Brisbane’s never seen anything like it. But now it’s kind of steadying back.
Jimmy (18:54 – 19:15)
Okay. All right. So you’ve got to rush off and do other things that have got nothing to do with AI, talking to real people about real subjects.
Thanks very much for jumping in here and giving us your view of the Strata landscape. And we’ll talk to you again soon. Are we going to go?
We’ve got another couple before we head overseas.
Sue (19:16 – 19:17)
Yep, absolutely.
Jimmy (19:17 – 19:18)
Great. All right.
Sue (19:18 – 19:19)
Talk again soon.
Jimmy (19:19 – 19:21)
Thank you all for listening.
Sue (19:21 – 19:21)
Bye.
Jimmy (19:22 – 19:52)
Bye. Thanks for listening to the Flat Chat Rap podcast. You’ll find links to the stories and other references on our website, flatchat.com.au. And if you haven’t already done so, you can subscribe to this podcast completely free on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or your favourite podcatcher. Just search for Flat Chat Rap with a W, click on subscribe, and you’ll get this podcast every week without even trying. Thanks again. Talk to you again next week.
Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Do not rely on this for legal advice.
› Flat Chat Strata Forum › Current Page
Tagged: AI, answers, artificial intelligence, by laws, Fair Trading, neighbours, podcast, questions, Strata
Jimmy and Sue discuss what happens when you ask an AI chatbot a question about strata. The answers are amazing, amusing and alarming – for very different reasons.
[See the full post at: Podcast: Could AI spell the end of Flat Chat?]
The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers.
› Flat Chat Strata Forum › Current Page
› Flat Chat Strata Forum › Current Page