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  • #73562
    slicendice
    Flatchatter

      Hey flatchatters

      If a strata management agreement delegates the roles of chair, secretary and treasurer to a strata manager, where do the responsibilities lie in relation to the strata committee and holding meetings?

      Our strata committee (small block of 12, NSW) haven’t had an official meeting, other than the AGM, for years. There are no minutes, and they have (so far) refused to forward correspondence relating to a current dispute. The strata manager is now being actively obstructionist and quite rude.

      The committee recently made some decisions that some of us have issues with – both in substance and process (see my post in Common Property re BBQ Conundrum if you really want the details).

      I’m trying to figure out if I have a case against them for not fulfilling their responsibilities.

      Cheers

    Viewing 11 replies - 16 through 26 (of 26 total)
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    • #73785
      kaindub
      Flatchatter

        I agree JT

        But the act does not confer decision making power to the strata manager.

        In cases where there is a lack of interest or a lack of expertise, the strata manger should be deferring decisions by way of generals meetings. At least everyone knows what is being decided and maybe the owners get sick of incessant general meetings and step up to the plate.

        As an aside, where there is a lack of expertise, maybe te committee should employ some consultants to provide independent advice.

        But I agree , when strata mangers overstep their authority, it can get nasty to steer the ship back on course ( as your tales have shown)

        #73797
        chesswood
        Flatchatter

          JT, section 52 provides that the OC can delegate powers to the strata managing agent. It doesn’t relate that to office-bearer functions (although the treasurer and secretary are discussed separately). That begs the question: what are the chair’s functions? Apart from controlling meetings if present, the SSMA is unhelpful on what the chair is supposed to do. Perhaps the next batch of amendments will clarify.

          #73804
          slicendice
          Flatchatter
          Chat-starter
            …a strata scheme can – if they’re not engaged or unaware- vote to delegate all powers to the strata manager…

            As far as I know, we’re working under a pretty standard strata management agreement. The basic roles are delegated to the SM but I’m not aware that the power to actually MAKE decisions for our small strata has been delegated.

            How would I find out? Would a specific resolution have to have been voted on at a previous AGM?

            I can attest that this resolution has not been presented to owners in the 8 years I’ve been living here.

            #73805
            slicendice
            Flatchatter
            Chat-starter

              …That begs the question: what are the chair’s functions? Apart from controlling meetings if present, the SSMA is unhelpful on what the chair is supposed to do.

              YES!! I have the same question!!

              If the Chair is just a gavel banger then where does the power to affect change actually lie? IMHO it’s the secretary who can really exert some control and steer the ship back on course – That’s the role I was planning on assuming – although the SM is still necessary in this role from a purely practical POV for communicating with non-resident owners who remain disengaged.

              Conversely, if the role of Chair has been delegated to the SM in an agreement… how does this reconcile with committee meetings that are not General Meetings? The SM doesn’t come to those. Is the Secretary allowed to also act as the chair of a committee meeting? (I intend to use an audio transcription app to take minutes).

              #73827
              Strata Answers
              Flatchatter
              (from NSW)

                A typical Strata Management Agreement sets out the areas of delegation to the strata manager and whether this is Full delegation or only delegation Subject to  Instructions.

                Even if it is Full delegation, then the Agreement will contain a clause to the following effect….

                “Nothing in this Agreement will prevent the owners corporation or the strata committee from performing all or any of the agreed services or additional services”
                The Agreement may delegate the roles of Chair or Secretary / Public Officer in full, but these office bearers retain paramount power and can exercise it whenever appropriate.
                In other words they can tell the strata manager “where to get off” – the problem is that they may not do so.

                 

                #73830
                slicendice
                Flatchatter
                Chat-starter

                  Thanks @Strata Answers … That’s good to know.

                  Our committee does not function. I intend to rectify that next AGM. (although I am keeping in mind an article I read by @Jimmy T about the 3 stages of a strata committee… and hope not to become a dictator)

                  #73834
                  TrulEConcerned
                  Flatchatter

                    @slicendice you wrote that ” I intend to put a series of resolutions to the meeting….. requested she give me notice. She has told me the meeting will be held in June (our FY ends May 31) ….I … intend to send her the resolutions before the end of the FY”.

                    First of all, may I correct you  it’s motions not resolutions that you will send the strata manager.

                    You are thinking like a reasonable person. Not everyone is. She has the power to corner you.

                    1. You say you asked her to give you notice of a meeting, i.e. a heads up (ideally long) before the official notice of meeting is circulated presumably several weeks’ notice. I do not see that she agreed. And even if she did, what if she later decided not to give the notice? Or forgets? As Jimmy often says and I can prove it…”there are no strata kops” on the beat to police such behaviour; and

                    2. While the SSM Act requires her to give a minimum notice of 14 days of the AGM, some strata schemes give more notice. Much more in some cases. The only reason I can think of is to catch owners out by shutting down the opportunity to provide motions. This happened to me a few years ago. Owners were given the notice, from memory, 8 weeks before the meeting was held. It stopped me in my tracks submitting any motion.

                    3. Fact: You have no idea when in June the AGM will be held (if indeed it’s in June, maybe it’ll be in May or July) or how early the notice will be sent out.

                    I suggest you spend this w/end writing the motions. Then either on Sunday or Monday email them to the strata manager and copy in the committee Secretary.

                    That maximises the chance that your motions will be listed in the agenda. By that I mean they cannot shut the door on your motions claiming the agenda was sent out already or she was working on it (so far out from the AGM’s due date).

                    If developments come to pass that you want to withdraw the motion, you can do so before the agenda is sent out (it’ll be like they never existed) and in the event that the strata manager claims they are already listed in the agenda, you can a I did, withdraw them at the AGM or amend them at the AGM.

                    Show her you’re alert to what’s going on and you’re no sucker.

                    Good luck!

                     

                     

                     

                    #73843
                    slicendice
                    Flatchatter
                    Chat-starter

                      @TrulEConcerned Yes… I agree with your concern and fully intend to get the motions in as soon as I can. You’re absolutely right that she could try to undermine me.

                      She responded to an email I sent the other day with the most extraordinary tone. I reminded her that we are not numbers… we are people… and we are people trying to live together and manage an asset worth millions of dollars.  Right now the only obstacle to doing that in a civil manner is her. She has not responded (funny that).

                      I’m working on my motions as we speak. 😉 I’ll let everyone know how it goes!!

                      #74570
                      slicendice
                      Flatchatter
                      Chat-starter

                        Hi guys… just thought I’d give you an update (as @JimmyT said people like to know the resolution of the story)

                        While we’re not in the last chapter quite yet there has been some movement.

                        @TrulEConcerned I submitted four motions for the AGM and they are all in the Notice of Meeting , which was sent out today. I’ll be curious to see if people actually read the full text and appendixes… but anyway…

                        The committee decided to delegate the strata manager to represent them at mediation (after she explicitly said that’s not in the agreement – she charged $180 for the pleasure). My partner made a mistake by not declaring my presence (I was in and out but heard it all) so there was an overly dramatic claim of “breach of confidentiality” (what are they thinking???? we share a bed F%S!!), but what was more interesting was the attitude and demeanour of said strata manger during the discussion – sarcastic, contemptuous, utterly non conciliatory, IMO totally unprofessional.

                        I have repeated my complaint to her boss (I did not receive any response to my first complaint). This time I citing the areas in of SCA code of conduct I believe she breached. The SM then claimed, in a subsequent email, that my desire for a common recreational area is not held by a majority of owners. When I enquired how she knew this she cited the committee – go figure.

                        Anyway, I am trying to rally round the neighbours who I know DO want to sort things out, and we’ll just have to leave it to the OC. It will be interesting to see who attends the AGM

                        Oh, and on that point… and the Strata manager has scheduled a zoom meeting, even though the people who ACTUALLY attend the AGM (at least statistically over the last 10 years) all LIVE ON SITE!!!! (facepalm emoji)

                        It’s very disheartening… I will stand for committee again and try to institute a new way of doing things with transparency and accountability. Wish me luck!!!

                        #74650
                        TrulEConcerned
                        Flatchatter

                          @slicendice

                          “…..committee decided to delegate the strata manager to represent them at mediation (after she explicitly said that’s not in the agreement – she charged $180 for the pleasure)”

                          Most committees choose the manager to represent them because doing so saves the committee members the shame of demonstrating their incompetence or ignorance of their responsibilities in front of the mediator.

                          “…the attitude and demeanour of said strata manger during the discussion – sarcastic, contemptuous, utterly non conciliatory, IMO totally unprofessional”.

                          I assume the manager’s poor behaviour is aimed at you and not all owners. If so, I recommend you not complain to her boss as the first step. Instead I suggest you make a formal complaint to those the manager works for ie the committee. Write to the committee informing them of the poor behaviour, abuse etc that you are enduring from their appointed manager, who it seems is treating you as instructed by the committee and that you have had enough.

                           

                          #74703
                          slicendice
                          Flatchatter
                          Chat-starter

                            Thanks @TrulEConcerned

                            I suggest you make a formal complaint to those the manager works for ie the committee.

                            Sadly, this would be a hiding to nothing. As you so astutely stated, the committee members continue to demonstrate:

                            their incompetence or ignorance of their responsibilities…

                            My neighbour rang one of them to discuss the issues prior to the meeting but he refused to have a conversation. He just kept saying “I know all about the issue” and told her we would discuss it at the AGM. If they wont talk to us how can we solve these problems? The simple answer is by joining the committee and not taking “but this is how we’ve always done it” as an answer.

                            Wish me luck!!

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