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[isydowner]

Hello fellow chatters, in relation to legal professionals that are engaged to oppress or be aggressive towards lot owners, what do you do if they lie to the owners corporation or the Tribunal.

I ask because misleading and deceptive conduct appears to be the norm in CTTT and NCAT yet no government body does anything about it!

Surely they have a responsibility to be truthful and fair?

A friend is in a situation that entails an autocratic committee who hide items from owners and then give them the bill once the lies have won out! But other owners are shocked once they find out how much money is being wasted on legal services… That aren’t considered by anyone other than the Exe Commies.

My situation was they put someone else’s condenser on my balcony and had a strata lawyer claim it was to fulfil its section 62 requirements… Not over yet thanks to Whales advice.

I am hoping Strata Reforms can weed out bad lawyers who engage in this sort of conduct, but what do you do if your the victim… and bad committee members are self serving Hitlers!?!

Other peoples experiences would be good to know, as would how they dealt with it and how successful their actions were.

Cheers all,

Thom R

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[Jimmy-T]

@isydowner said:
Hello fellow chatters, in relation to legal professionals that are engaged to oppress or be aggressive towards lot owners, what do you do if they lie to the owners corporation or the Tribunal.

I ask because misleading and deceptive conduct appears to be the norm in CTTT and NCAT yet no government body does anything about it!

Surely they have a responsibility to be truthful and fair?

A friend is in a situation that entails an autocratic committee who hide items from owners and then give them the bill once the lies have won out! But other owners are shocked once they find out how much money is being wasted on legal services… That aren’t considered by anyone other than the Exe Commies.

My situation was they put someone else’s condenser on my balcony and had a strata lawyer claim it was to fulfil its section 62 requirements… Not over yet thanks to Whales advice.

I am hoping Strata Reforms can weed out bad lawyers who engage in this sort of conduct, but what do you do if your the victim… and bad committee members are self serving Hitlers!?!

Other peoples experiences would be good to know, as would how they dealt with it and how successful their actions were.

Cheers all,

Thom R

The problem isn’t the lawyers but the system.  Lawyers are paid to represent their clients, not the truth. They accept what their clients are saying is true unless there is clear evidence that it isn’t. I can’t recall if you have to take an oath at an NCAT hearing but if you do, then lying under oath is perjury.  The problem is that even the dumbest lawyer is smarter than many of the NCAT members.  

These days, petitioners at NCAT have to seek permission to be represented by lawyers.  Perhaps this will lead to more cases being decided on provable fact and the law than persuasive arguments by m’learned friends. 

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[isydowner]

Agree, my friend was told that ‘legal principles’ are engaged at Tribunals by Lawyers that are representing any parties and that anything adduced as evidence by lawyers must be both true and correct.

In some case the Court of Appeal judges held that once a lawyer is sought / engaged, that they have an overriding obligation not to mislead or deceive any court or tribunal in NSW.

Trouble is, as you say, the tribunal is reluctant to do anything be it make an order or wrap a lawyer, no matter what they say, for outright lying. This is surely a big issue for reforms.

Have you any experience of how effective NSW Fair Trading, the Law Society or Legal Services Commissioner are in these matters?

To me, a lie is a lie and should be punishable by the Authorities, but they all seem to ‘represent’ each other and not the strata owners of NSW.

Sorry for the harsh topic, my friend is going through so much that we are all planing on moving to VIC were the Tribunals and Courts appear to work for its constituents.

I was born and bred in Bondi and am ashamed how Sydney people treat each other in strata, moreover the Government have allowed the Tribunal and dodgy lawyers weaken property ownership in our state.

Live and let live is my motto, but live together in unison and abide by each other’s rights is not a hard ask!

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[Millie]

Hello isydowner

I’ve very recently made a complaint to the Legal Services Commissioner about a lawyer I have had dealings with.  My complaint was ‘closed’ by the Commissioner.  I wrote again.  It’s taken five weeks to get a reply back, but the result is the same:  my complaint remains closed.  

My complaint is not just about whan I perceive to be false and deliberately misleading statements made by the lawyer.  There were other serious issues raised.  Nothing makes an impression on our learned Legal friend.

Good luck, but if my experience is anything to go by, the Legal Services Commissioner will side with his Legal cohorts.

Someone once said to me:  The only ‘fair’ you’ll see in life is a Country Carnival.

Lawyers…Politicians…Used Car Salesmen…which is the most trustworthy?

Though I do know one very, very good NSW State Politician who deserves a medal for his level of integrity – he’s an Independent.  I give you two guesses at his name.

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[2300]

“The problem is that even the dumbest lawyer is smarter than many of the NCAT members”

Too true. IMO, NCAT members need to be spoon fed. That’s what the lawyers do for their client who is usually an OC.

Maybe we need to spoon feed members as well as lawyers. We need more cases won against deficient ECs and OCs using these sort of ideals:

Nulama Village P/L v Owners Strata Plan 61788

“The executive committee members as office bearers should at all times act in a transparent way, be accountable, and act in the best interests of the owners corporation.”

Jennifer Elizabeth James v The Owners Strata Plan No. SP 11478:

[54] …There is no doubt that a person exercising a statutory power has a duty to do so with reasonable care. As the High Court stated in Caledonian Collieries Ltd v Spiers [1957] HCA 14; (1956-1957) 97 CLR 202 at 220, it is a “well-settled principle” that:

… when statutory powers are conferred they must be exercised with reasonable care …

and as Jimmy T says the lawyers are just doing the bidding of an EC/OC, however:

CIVIL AND ADMINISTRATIVE TRIBUNAL ACT 2013 – SECT 71

False or misleading statements
71 False or misleading statements

A person must not, in any proceedings or application to the Tribunal, provide any information, or make any statement, to the Tribunal knowing that the information or statement is false or misleading in a material respect.

 

CIVIL AND ADMINISTRATIVE TRIBUNAL ACT 2013 – SECT 73

Contempt of Tribunal
73 Contempt of Tribunal

(1) The Tribunal has, if it is alleged, or appears to the Tribunal on its own view, that a person is guilty of contempt of the Tribunal committed in the face of the Tribunal or in the hearing of the Tribunal, the same powers as the District Court has in those circumstances in relation to a contempt of the District Court

…
(2) A person is guilty of contempt of the Tribunal if the person does or omits to do any thing that, if the Tribunal were a court of law having power to commit for contempt, would be contempt of that court unless the person establishes that there was a reasonable excuse for the act or omission.

…

so if you’ve got good admissible evidence that the EC is not acting transparently, accountably and in the best interests of the OC and are by act or ommission misleading the tribunal, put your  evidence together and spoon feed the NCAT, quoting their own cases and their Act in the process

That’s how legal arguments get won.

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[isydowner]

Thanks Millie and 2300, both excellent replies

My friends thanks you both, he is considering suing his strata manager and his OCs legal representatives for fraud / negligence… But needs to make sure they cannot defend by claiming an EC member had lied to them (in writing I am assuming).

He was also quoted two cases, neithereof those you stated (which he will use your references for sure), about deceit of the courts and tribunals and that it extends to all ‘players’ no matter how small a part they played “in the deceit”.

I sometimes think we are not a democracy here in Australia, with such a weak system in strata! Bring on the much needed reforms.

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[Millie]

Thanks 2300.

I’m constantly grateful for the information that’s shared on this Forum.  

There is an absolute maze of Legislation out there and those who manage to find their way around it and keep this forum up and running and informative are brilliant.

Thanks again.

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[Merrick N Sniper]

Here is a quote from The Brass Verdict (a Lincoln Lawyer novel) by Michael Connolly:

“Everybody lies. Cops lie. Lawyers lie. Witnesses lie. The victims lie. A trial is a contest of lies. And everybody in the courtroom knows this. The judge knows this. Even the jury knows this. They come into the building knowing they will be lied to. They take their seats in the box and agree to be lied to.”

It’s a fictional work of course. 

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[Author]

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