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Topic
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I’m after some advice about our obligations as the upstairs owners in an older Sydney strata building.
We live in a classic 2-up, 2-down block of four apartments in Sydney that’s around 80 years old. We’re in the upstairs unit, and our apartment is carpeted throughout. We haven’t changed the flooring or carried out any renovations since we bought the property around 18 months ago.
Our downstairs neighbours have approached us about what they describe as a “flooring issue”. The noise they’re referring to relates to old creaking boards or joists underneath the carpet, plus everyday impact noise from people walking around the apartment. We have two young children, so there is the normal sound of toddlers walking, running occasionally and generally living their lives, but we don’t play loud music, have parties or create excessive noise. Kids are asleep by 7pm, up around 6am.
My understanding is that in older buildings, some noise transfer through floors is simply part of the building’s construction, particularly where timber floors underneath carpet may creak or flex with age. 80 year old buildings being 80 year old buildings and all.
My questions are:
If we haven’t altered the flooring in any way, are we responsible for ordinary impact noise that results from the age and construction of the building?
Does an upstairs owner have any obligation to upgrade flooring or install acoustic treatments simply because downstairs neighbours can hear everyday living noise?
Where is the line in NSW strata law between normal residential noise and unreasonable nuisance?
If the issue is really the building’s age and construction rather than anything we’ve done, is that generally considered our responsibility or that of strata?We are considerate neighbours, but I don’t want to be pressured into paying for an expensive solution to a downstairs neighbours problem that long predates our ownership and occupation. I’m keen to understand what our legal obligations actually are before agreeing to anything.
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You may have bought a property that has insufficient or poor quality carpet underlay. If so, you inherit that problem and the responsibility to rectify it.
That said, if your neighbour is seriously impacted by noise it’s on them to keep a log of noise to demonstrate the impact: date, time and type of noise. I wouldn’t be rushing out to replace my carpet based on a complaint until I knew there was a serious issue, and a log will demonstrate that they are serious. If this ends up being a discussion with the other owners (assuming all four of you are on the Committee) about “old building noise” and whether something must be done about that, the other owners will want that log to show that the neighbour is seriously impacted before they start spending money on acoustic engineers.
There are other posts in this chat about measuring noise in an apartment and how to go about that. If this ever ended up in mediation, your neighbour would need to have acoustic reports. But let’s hope this doesn’t go that far.
If the issue is creaking beams, then it really should be investigated. We used to own in an old building in Bondi where an owners downstairs complained about a sagging floor. It turned out the corner of the building was only being held up by an arco-prop because of subsidence caused by the run-off from a blocked downpipe from the building next door.
Yes, buildings get creaky as they get old – they also get creaky before they collapse. You might need new floors and that’s an OC reponsibility, at least to investigate.
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Firstly, you need to check the building’s by-laws. It may have a specific by-law about flooring or there may be a renovation by-law for your own Unit that dealt with flooring and noise transmission. Most older buildings would have the “default” recommended by-laws, which includes a by-law that says an owner or occupier must not use their lot or common property in a way that causes a nuisance or hazard.
The Owners Corporation of your building must maintain and repair common property. If the age of the building has led to the floor joists and flooring degrading, so they now allow noise to create a nuisance to other lots, then it’s the responsibility of the Owners Corporation to fix that problem. Namely all 4 owners will share the cost (proportioned by Unit Entitlement).
In practice, noisy floors are a common problem, and are complicated to fix. If the issue can’t be easily resolved by negotiation between you and your neighbour, then escalate the problem to the Owners Corporation, and add it to the agenda of the next general meeting, or strata committee meeting. Discuss how to do this with your strata manager, if you have one. Or call a meeting of all owners to discuss the issue.
What generally then happens, is for the OC to engage a suitable expert, such as a sound engineer, to carry out testing, and provide a report about the noise. They will determine if the noise transmission is a problem (ie, noise is above generally accepted levels) and to determine the likely cause of this. Alternatively, if the flooring is old and suspect, then get a structural engineer to report on that. Then the OC will need to fund, and arrange the necessary repairs.
Floor coverings and the floor/ceiling structure are critical elements in the transmission of noise, for sure, but so is the behaviour of the residents. Or to put it another way, your apartment with its creaky floor may not be suitable for “the normal sound of [two young children] walking, running occasionally and generally living their lives.”
In the old days a tribunal Member would tell the downstairs neighbour “suck it up – you chose to live in strata – apartments are noisy.” These days you are just as likely to get one who asks what you’re doing raising two kids in an older, noise-prone apartment and tell you to take whatever measures are necessary to cut down the noise.
If you want to be alerted when anyone replies to your posts or responds to this topic, please register and login, then you will be able to subscribe to the topic. The opinions offered in these Forum posts and replies are not intended to be taken as legal advice. Readers with serious issues should consult experienced strata lawyers. NB: Longer threads may spill over to additional pages - look for the numbers on the bottom right, under the last post.
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