Podcast: A load of rubbish and advice for Jackie O

This week we look at how one of the greatest conveniences in apartment blocks could be not only costing you money but undermining efforts at recycling.

The humble garbage chute can be a major pain in the wallet if it’s misused, and a threat to recycling if residents chose to drop rather than sort.

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We have advice for a radio superstar who’s having to move out of her home because of paparazzi pests.

We hear about a builder who’s ready to retire because the laws brought in to clear the cowboys out of the industry are making his life impossible – and he’s one of the good guys.

And we chat about an increasing dilemma in apartment blocks – living with people with mental health issues – and how one couple are trying to prevent their son from being driven out of his home.

TRANSCRIPT IN FULL

Jimmy  00:00

We’ve got a new platform for our podcast.

Sue  00:03

Really?

Jimmy  00:03

Yes, an online place. It distributes the podcast to lots of things, like Apple and things like that.

Sue  00:10

Okay, so it doesn’t make any difference for listeners?

Jimmy  00:13

Well, this is the thing… It has an automatic mastering service. So every week when we do this (once I’ve cut out all the mistakes that I make, in all our ‘umms’ in ‘ahhs),’ I do an audio edit, where I change things. It does all that; you just send it in, it does it for $6 a month.

Sue  00:36

Oh, wow!

Jimmy  00:37

And they’ve said, just do one and don’t do the audio stuff and let us do it, and then see what you think. So, listeners, if you think this sounds better than normal, or worse than normal, or even exactly the same, let us know. Our email address is mail@flat chat.com.au  So, you can drop us a line. This week, we’re going to be talking rubbish.

Sue  01:07

What’s the difference to normal?

Jimmy  01:09

We’re going to be talking about garbage chutes. We’re going to talk about a couple of serious issues, such as experienced builders not being able to get work, because of the Design and Building Practitioners Act.

Sue  01:23

So they’re not being able to come in and fix defects in apartments, that kind thing?

Jimmy  01:27

We will explain it; we’ll talk about it. And we’ve got a story about a family, where their son has mental health issues and he’s been given a really hard time by the residents of this apartment block. And you’ve got a couple of stories, as well?

Sue  01:43

Yes, we’ve got some advice for Jackie O, the radio star, for apartment living.

Jimmy  01:48

That’s tonnes to be going on with, so we’d better get started. I’m Jimmy Thomson, I write the Flat Chat column for the Australian Financial Review.

Sue  01:56

And I’m Sue Williams. I write about property for Domain.

Jimmy  01:59

And this is your new (and hopefully improved), Flat Chat Wrap. This weekend just gone, in the Financial Review, I wrote about garbage chutes. I think every building we’ve been in for the past 30 years, has had garbage chutes.

Sue  02:28

Well, some of them have had garbage chutes that don’t work.

Jimmy  02:30

Yes, that’s what I was getting to. So it’s a little room, usually on every floor, and there’s a metal sort of hinged door, way in the wall and it’s just big enough to take a relatively small bag of garbage and it drops from wherever you are, down to the basement. Sometimes, there’s a thing that just collects them and then when the bag is full, it’s in segments, and it turns around automatically. Sometimes, it actually has a compactor there, which crushes the bags to an even smaller size. But the thing is, that rubbish goes straight to landfill. Now, since this brilliant idea came in (all those years ago), we started recycling and separating. I think we’ve been in a building, where it had a recycling chute and landfill chute. And that makes sense; it’s basically two pieces of the same very basic technology. But, for older buildings and for buildings that don’t have that separation at the deposit level, it kind of discourages people from…

Sue  03:37

Because it’s so convenient, just to chuck everything down the garbage chute, rather than maybe, taking the recycling stuff down to where the rubbish is and where the recycling bins are.

Jimmy  03:47

We know in our system… I mean apparently, our building is one of the best in the city of Sydney area, for recycling our garbage and we have food scraps, and we have paper recycling, and all that. There’s big signs up, that say ‘don’t put garbage in plastic bags in the recycling bin, because the plastic bags clog up the machinery;’ the operating machinery. You go down there and there’s the people who’ve just dumped. All they need to do is tip the stuff in the plastic bag into the bin and then walk about five feet to the bin, where they can put the plastic bags. But obviously, these people are so exhausted by having carried their garbage that far, that they can’t summon the strength to walk the extra five yards.

Sue  04:33

It’s weird, isn’t it? You wonder why they do that; whether it’s ignorance, whether they don’t understand… I remember once, we had cleaners, and they would take our recycling stuff, and they would just chuck it in the garbage and we only discovered that when we went down to the garbage and suddenly recognised our rubbish. So some people who have cleaners; maybe the cleaners don’t really understand the importance of recycling… I wonder, do people just don’t know, or are they just really, really lazy?

Jimmy  05:07

I think they do it deliberately. I think these are the recycling equivalents of anti-vaxxers. They go “you can’t tell me what to do with my garbage, so I am going to put this plastic bag…” And the thing is, these are not the sharpest tools in the shed, often (as is the case with anti-vaxxers). They put their garbage in the plastic bag, and they leave envelopes with their address on it. Our cleaners have seen them; they get their rubber gloves on and they go through and they pick up the envelope and they go “oh, this is apartment, whatever,” and they get a note from the building manager saying ‘you put garbage in…’

Sue  05:44

Oh, do they?

Jimmy  05:45

I believe so, yes.

Sue  05:47

I wonder if you had CCTV cameras down there, that might stop people; maybe make them think twice?

Jimmy  05:54

Make them think once! It baffles me, you know, that these people have carried their garbage down that far, that they can’t just tip it out into the bin. Anyway, the garbage chute; the strata manager for Vantage Strata Management in the ACT, has done a report on garbage chutes, and how they are an expensive addition to buildings, especially these days. We’ve got a sign in our garbage chute, in every one in our building, that says ‘don’t put umbrellas, brooms, coat hangers, cigarettes, down the garbage chute,’ and you think “umbrellas and brooms?!” But I’ve been in a building where I can remember the building caretaker, almost in tears, was trying to use a fire hose, to flush an umbrella out of the garbage chute, because it was halfway down the building, but had this accumulation of rubbish behind it.

Sue  07:00

So it kind of opened?

Jimmy  07:01

It opened and got stuck and then there was a traffic jam of garbage behind it.

Sue  07:09

And the same thing, I guess, happens with coat hangers; you know, metal coat hangers?

Jimmy  07:13

They’ll get jammed and then everything backs up behind them. One building we stayed in, which had a compactor, which kept breaking down; they finally just welded the garbage chute gate shut, so nobody could use it.

Sue  07:28

Because it became too expensive, to keep fixing all the time.

Jimmy  07:32

So I think if you add in the expense and the hassle, and then the fact that it’s actually helping to undermine the whole recycling programme… I’m sure if people had to carry their garbage down to the bin room, they would (probably, possibly, some of them), recycle some of it, although some of them would just chuck everything in the same bin.

Sue  07:53

But at least if they put it in the proper garbage bin, then it wouldn’t be spoil the recycling.

Jimmy  08:05

In my detailed research on this matter, I found this American system, where you’ve got one gate for the garbage and three buttons, and you tell the garbage chute ‘oh, this is paper and stuff,’ or ‘this is food scraps,’ or ‘this is general rubbish.’ And when you get the green light, it means  that the thing at the bottom has adjusted, so that your rubbish will go into one of three different hoppers.

Sue  08:34

Oh, that’s excellent!

Jimmy  08:35

And it also has a big, giant chimney sweep brush and detergent at the top, and it comes spinning down and periodically cleans the whole tube, so you don’t get the stinky smell.

Sue  08:47

That sounds like great technology!

Jimmy  08:49

I’m thinking it won’t be cheap.

Sue  08:52

But I mean, technology is coming on in leaps and bounds, always. I’m doing a story about an office building which is just being built, where the owner of the building is really keen on recycling. She’s actually installing the equipment within the garbage room, to break down (like with the composting), to turn into fertiliser and some of the recycling materials like glass, to turn it into bricks, so she can then sell them to builders. You know, that kind of stuff. She reckons it’s a great education tool, because people will come down and see this machinery working and see these bricks that are created and think “oh wow! This is really working, so therefore, I want to contribute to it.” Much more than just seeing a whole set of different coloured garbage bins.

Jimmy  09:41

And signs saying ‘do the right thing.’ So the solutions to the garbage chute problems, suggested in the report I was telling you about, are using your key fob to access the bin room, or the garbage chute, so that if somebody puts the wrong thing down, they can go ‘oh, that went in about this time and we can identify the people who’ve been using the garbage chute in that time period and talk to them about it,’ which would just deter people from doing stupid things, like putting umbrellas and brooms in. The other one is that they put in CCTV, so people can be seen putting stuff down, all of which are expenses. And that is the question; cost versus convenience. If it was put to owners in this building, for instance, here’s the choice; you can pay more (and that will go on your levies), to instal some sort of monitoring system, or we can seal up the garbage chutes.

Sue  10:43

Pay more!

Jimmy  10:45

Yes, I think so, too.

Sue  10:46

Garbage chutes are so convenient. Oh my goodness.

Jimmy  10:48

I think that’s a discussion a lot of people will be having now. Not because of the umbrellas and broomsticks and coat hangers in the garbage chutes, but more about how it actually undermines the whole concept of recycling, because if it’s easier just to throw everything including tins and bottles… Well, that’s another thing; bottles going down the chute. I’ve heard reports of people just pouring cat litter straight down the chute, not in a bag.  I’ve heard of people pouring food scraps straight down the garbage chute, not in a bag. And the the worst I think, is people just taking dirty, soiled nappies and dropping them down the chute.

Sue  11:29

Pretty shocking, really.

Jimmy  11:31

And on that smelly note, when we come back, we’re going to talk about Jackie O and why she’s having to move, and our advice for her. That’s after this.

[MUSIC]

Jimmy

It was a kind of a sad story in The Daily Telegraph last week, Sue, that Jackie O, the radio personality; she’s on with Kyle Sandilands, on the radio in Sydney… She’s had to leave her ‘forever home,’ as they called it.

Sue  12:02

She only bought it a couple of years ago, really, in Woollahra, in the eastern suburbs of Sydney. She’s leaving, because she can’t get any privacy from the paparazzi. They hang around the house a lot and try and shoot photos of her outside at the pool and probably, on the deck and inside, as well. And so she is selling, because she can’t stand it anymore. And our advice to her would be, buy an apartment.

Jimmy  12:26

Absolutely.

Sue  12:26

Apartments are fantastic for privacy. I mean, we’ve had Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban, who bought an apartment and lived there some of the time, in North Sydney. Russell Crowe lived for a while on the pier at Woollahra, in the apartments there.

Jimmy  12:42

We had Hugh Jackman visiting here and we had Todd McKenney living here. And at one point, we had both boys from Oz!

Sue  12:54

That’s right. And when Hugh Jackman would use the spa, the word would go around the building and lots of people would rush down there to use the spa, as well. I mean, generally, it’s a great place for privacy…

Jimmy  13:04

Apart from people watching you in the spa…

Sue  13:08

I think other residents tend to be quite supportive….

Jimmy  13:11

Protective, even…

Sue  13:13

Of any well-known people they have living in the building. And it’s great! There’s so much privacy. I mean, we rarely see anybody else on the floor of our building. We often see people and think “gosh, I’ve never seen them before,” and you find out they’ve lived in the same building for 10 years. In a nice building, you’ve got a concierge, so people can’t just walk in.

Jimmy  13:36

These people who need protection from paparazzi, are probably going to be living in a nice building.

Sue  13:40

That’s right, of course. So Jackie O, just look at apartment living!

Jimmy  13:44

There’s nice penthouses all around the city; fantastic views. Concierge’s who will look after you… Neighbours who will discreetly ignore you, if that’s what you want. This is modern living.

Sue  13:59

Who’d live in a house?

Jimmy  14:00

When we come back, we’re going to talk about unintended consequences of trying to save apartment owners from dodgy builders.

[MUSIC]

Jimmy

I got quite a sad email this morning, from a builder who’s been working in apartments for more than 20 years. He says he spends a lot of time fixing up defective work, by much bigger professional operators. He’s having to tell his regular clients “no, I can’t come and do work in your building anymore, because of the law;” the Design and Building Practitioners Act.

Sue  14:43

This is the new law, where any work on defective buildings has to be checked by engineers.

Jimmy  14:50

Yes, you need somebody with a certain level of qualification; certifiers and people like that, who will look at the scope of works and look at the professional standing of the people who are going to do it and say “yes, this can go ahead.” There are two parts of that problem; one is, it’s an added expense, so that the work isn’t getting done, because the owners corporations are going “oh, so I have to pay the builder and the certifier, or architect, or whatever.” The other aspect of that is, there just aren’t enough of these professionals to go around.

Sue  15:27

Oh, so you have to wait a long time to get the work done? And is there a limit on the amount of work. I mean, can you get work done up to $10,000, or something? Absolutely.

Jimmy  15:36

I don’t know if it’s $10,000, but there is a threshold, but it’s quite a low threshold. And for any significant work; the kind of significant work that you’re going to need that kind of approval for, it’s going to cost more than the threshold. So yes, it’s tricky, because we don’t want to go back to the bad old days of dodgy builders coming in and doing work that’s not up to standard.  We used to own in a building that had a series of suspect work…

Sue  16:11

It was cheap, but then it was really expensive to rectify.

Jimmy  16:15

So I just think there needs to be some thought put into a middle stage, where you can say “well, this person has had a reputation over the years,” and they can apply for some sort of certification themselves, but knowing that their work could potentially be scrutinised… Somebody will come around and look at what they’re doing and say “no, you’re not up to scratch.” We want to encourage the good builders; the good operators, to keep operating. We don’t want to drive them out of business. But this is what this guy is saying. He said “I’m 60 years old. I’m having to cancel five contracts and now I’m thinking I might as well retire.”

Sue  16:57

Oh, that’s terrible.

Jimmy  16:59

It is awful, because that’s a lifetime of experience gone.

Sue  17:03

And fewer builders in the industry.

Jimmy  17:06

And fewer good builders in the industry.

Sue  17:08

Your solution sounds a good one. Maybe you should write to David Chandler and suggest it?

Jimmy  17:13

I think I might; see what happens. I don’t want to get on his wrong side; he’s a very scary man.

Sue  17:19

Don’t be pathetic, Jimmy!

[MUSIC]

Jimmy  17:28

One other sad story that’s come across our desk this week… I’m not sure exactly how to handle it. It’s a woman; she’s the parent of a young adult, who has mental health problems. He is trying to reintegrate back into the community and so they’ve bought a flat, so that he can live independently. The whole point of this exercise, is this young man can live independently, but they are aware of the fact that he does have mental health issues. His carers (I don’t know what you’d call them; the professionals who look after him); have set standards of behaviour for him, that he must adhere to, to be allowed to live on his own. Now, the two reactions (opposing reactions for me)… One is putting somebody with mental health issues into an apartment block; it is possibly the worst place to put them, because of the way that might impact on other people. But, it’s also potentially the best place to put them, because they could be part of a community that keeps an eye on them.

Sue  18:33

That’s right. And because it could be very lonely in a house on your own.

Jimmy  18:37

What’s happened in this case, is that one tenant (I believe the next door neighbour to the young man), has started a campaign against this bloke and complains about every little infraction, and has now persuaded the strata committee to start moves to have him removed from the building.

Sue  18:59

Oh, no! But have the parents been to the strata committee and said to them…

Jimmy  19:04

 I don’t know.

Sue  19:05

Because you’d think, when you understand that there is an issue, I think most people are a lot more understanding and sympathetic and would make many more allowances and be more supportive, as well.

Jimmy  19:16

And probably, if this young man had some sort of champion (for want of a better word), in the building…

Sue  19:23

Yes, a go-between.

Jimmy  19:26

So really, this is a situation where it needs people to sit down and talk to each other. But I do think that from the sound of it, it’s the person who is most immediately impacted by this, who is creating problems and because they’re constantly complaining, this young man’s behaviour is becoming increasingly erratic.

Sue  19:44

Yes, because he’s under so much stress and pressure. It’s a shame when neurodiverse people can’t live in a community and people can’t make exceptions for them. I mean, that’s a very sad day, I think. Especially because so many young people now are suffering from mental health problems, as well.

Jimmy  20:03

I mean, we don’t know how severe the mental health problems are for this young man; we don’t know how that manifests. I also remember the story we carried recently about the apartment in Perth, where a couple had moved in and the guy upstairs was really disruptive; loud music all times of the day and night and if they complained, it was even worse. And then they sold it to somebody, without telling them that this was a problem and the Supreme Court (or High Court), in West Australia ruled that they had to basically buy the apartment back off the person they’d sold it to, because it was sold it to them under false pretences. That was resolved eventually, when the disruptive person moved out and then everything was okay. But it’s hard. It’s really, really hard, but that one lesson teaches us, if you’ve got a problem in your apartment, and you sell it, and you don’t tell people there’s a problem, you’re going to end up getting it handed back to you.

Sue  21:01

Yes, absolutely. But I think people just need a bit more education. I mean, I used to work in a newspaper with a man who had Tourette’s, and he would shout and flail his arms and swear, and jump up at various points, but because we all knew he had Tourette’s, it was fine. But if we hadn’t known, we would have thought ‘this is really strange behaviour.’ Everybody really liked him. He was a fantastic journalist. He just kind of carried on, until his retirement really, with a very full, successful career. You just need a bit of education and understanding.

Jimmy  21:42

A bit of education and understanding; how much better would the world be, if there was more of that around? Thanks very much, Sue. We’ve got another full podcast this week and I’m fascinated to see what it sounds like, once it’s been fixed by Buzzsprout.

Sue  21:59

Great, maybe our voices will sound much nicer, too?

Jimmy  22:02

Maybe, I’ll sound more intelligent?

Sue  22:04

Maybe, you could sing on one session and see how that sounds?

Jimmy  22:08

Maybe, we could not do that. Alright, thanks for coming in and bringing your stories and thank you all for listening.

[MUSIC]

Jimmy

Thanks for listening to the Flat Chat Wrap podcast. You’ll find links to the stories and other references on our website, flatchat.com.au. And if you haven’t already done so, you can subscribe to this podcast completely free, on Apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or your favourite pod -catcher. Just search for Flat Chat Wrap with a ‘w,’ click on subscribe, and you’ll get this podcast every week, without even trying. Thanks again. Talk to you again next week.